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MY GAY-RIGHTS CARTOON IS CHARGED WITH COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!
(newsgroup: alt.politics.homosexuality) -- PART 3 OF 4


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:22 GMT

On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:36:50 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>If I had the talent, I'd do it.  BTW, speaking of gay-friendly comics, have
>you ever read the _Doom Patrol_ series by DC comics?  

I was never interested in that style of comics...as a kid I went for
Looney Tunes, then Mad Magazine, then went wild for underground comics
of all sorts.

>At one point, one of the super heroes in the team was a post-op transsexual
>lesbian.  Can't get more gay-positive than that.

I don't see what any of that has to do with same-sex love. I'd say
that person fits easily under the umbrella of "queer"...but certainly
not distinctively homosexual. 


---
Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says:
"Throw the hetero over the fence some hay."
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass!
To find out why, choose either URL below:
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:42:51 -0700

In article <35f0aaa4.32440422@nntp.sj.bigger.net>,
ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>>At one point, one of the super heroes in the team was a post-op transsexual
>>lesbian.  Can't get more gay-positive than that.
>
>I don't see what any of that has to do with same-sex love. I'd say
>that person fits easily under the umbrella of "queer"...but certainly
>not distinctively homosexual. 

Excuse me?  Since when is a lesbian not distinctively homosexual?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:48:02 GMT

On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:42:51 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>>>At one point, one of the super heroes in the team was a post-op transsexual
>>>lesbian.  Can't get more gay-positive than that.
>>
>>I don't see what any of that has to do with same-sex love. I'd say
>>that person fits easily under the umbrella of "queer"...but certainly
>>not distinctively homosexual. 
>
>Excuse me?  Since when is a lesbian not distinctively homosexual?

When you suggest she was originally a man before the implied sex
change.


---
Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says:
"Throw the hetero over the fence some hay."
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass!
To find out why, choose either URL below:
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:54:36 -0700

In article <35f1bd2f.6458541@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com
wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:42:51 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
>Steiner) wrote:
>
>>>>At one point, one of the super heroes in the team was a post-op transsexual
>>>>lesbian.  Can't get more gay-positive than that.
>>>
>>>I don't see what any of that has to do with same-sex love. I'd say
>>>that person fits easily under the umbrella of "queer"...but certainly
>>>not distinctively homosexual. 
>>
>>Excuse me?  Since when is a lesbian not distinctively homosexual?
>
>When you suggest she was originally a man before the implied sex
>change.

So the great defender against homophobia is himself transphobic?

Any woman, whether she has female genitals from birth or through surgery,
who loves women is a lesbian (unless she also loves men, in which case
she's bisexual).

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Nicole Lasher 
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:45:16 +0200

 

Michelle Steiner wrote:

> So the great defender against homophobia is himself transphobic?

Oh please!  You're really reaching here, aren't you?

> Any woman, whether she has female genitals from birth or through surgery,
> who loves women is a lesbian (unless she also loves men, in which case
> she's bisexual).

So how do you explain intersexual peoples' use of the abbreviations TW and GW? 
Could it possibly be because even some of them prefer some sort of distinction?
Why do people assume that everyone wants to "normalize" or assimilate in order to
be accepted, or considered equal?

~Niki


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:52:58 -0700

In article <35F2BC1B.64AE9F94@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>> So the great defender against homophobia is himself transphobic?
>
>Oh please!  You're really reaching here, aren't you?

Not at all, oh great defender of the Great Prophet Zeke!

>> Any woman, whether she has female genitals from birth or through surgery,
>> who loves women is a lesbian (unless she also loves men, in which case
>> she's bisexual).
>
>So how do you explain intersexual peoples' use of the abbreviations TW and GW? 

I don't, because it is irrelevant.

>Could it possibly be because even some of them prefer some sort of distinction?

Could it possibly be that this has nothing to do with what I wrote?

>Why do people assume that everyone wants to "normalize" or assimilate in
>order to be accepted, or considered equal?

Why do you drag in irrelevant questions to distract attention from Zeke's
bigotries?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:03:56 GMT

On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:52:58 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>Why do you drag in irrelevant questions to distract attention from Zeke's
>bigotries?

Your remarks are intentionally manipulative, and do not arise from any
considirable intellect.


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 15:58:59 -0700

In article <35f30647.15450915@nntp.sj.bigger.net>,
ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:52:58 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
>Steiner) wrote:
>
>>Why do you drag in irrelevant questions to distract attention from Zeke's
>>bigotries?
>
>Your remarks are intentionally manipulative, and do not arise from any
>considirable intellect.

You're projecting again.  You have demostrated transpohobia, and you and
your apologist are not going to obfuscate that.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Nicole Lasher 
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:24:16 +0200

 

Michelle Steiner wrote:

> You're projecting again.  You have demostrated transpohobia, and you and
> your apologist are not going to obfuscate that.

No, Michelle, YOU twisted Ezekiel's saying that HE DIDN'T KNOW if a particular
cartoon character who was a biological male who is mentally female and lesbian,
has a sex change operation, was technically homosexual in the first place, but
may fit into the category of "queer".  That would, of course, depend on the
individual, but since he wasn't totally sure of the individual, he could not
say.
YOU took it to be transphobic because you wanted to...not because of what was
actually said.

~Niki


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:36:10 -0700

In article <35F3D070.2F4B7500@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>Michelle Steiner wrote:
>
>> You're projecting again.  You have demostrated transpohobia, and you and
>> your apologist are not going to obfuscate that.
>
>No, Michelle, YOU twisted Ezekiel's saying that HE DIDN'T KNOW if a particular
>cartoon character who was a biological male who is mentally female and lesbian,
>has a sex change operation, was technically homosexual in the first place, but
>may fit into the category of "queer".

No, he didn't say that.  He denied that she's lesbian.

>hat would, of course, depend on the
>individual, but since he wasn't totally sure of the individual, he could not
>say.

Any woman who loves women can deny that she's a lesbian.  In this specific
case, the character does not deny that she's a lesbian, as can easily be
inferred from the description I provided of her.

>YOU took it to be transphobic because you wanted to...not because of what was
>actually said.

On the contrary, YOU deny that it is transphobic because you will support
Zeke completely, without reservation, regardless of what he says.  You're
nothing more than his shrill shill.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Nicole Lasher 
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:09:30 +0200

 

Michelle Steiner wrote:

> On the contrary, YOU deny that it is transphobic because you will support
> Zeke completely, without reservation, regardless of what he says.  You're
> nothing more than his shrill shill.

Oh, this is comical.
It is now quite clear to me what your purpose has been in this thread...not to
educate anyone else, and certainly not to educate or enhance yourself through
knowledgeable debate and discourse.
It has been, simply, to carry on some sort of bizarre cyber-bitch-fight with Ezekiel
from a safe distance.
Excuse me, please, for interrupting.  Watch the virtual hand ::giggle::

~Niki


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:28:04 GMT

On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:09:30 +0200, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>Oh, this is comical.

Isn't it? I'm highly entertained!

>It is now quite clear to me what your purpose has been in this thread...not to
>educate anyone else, and certainly not to educate or enhance yourself through
>knowledgeable debate and discourse.

Too, too true.

>It has been, simply, to carry on some sort of bizarre cyber-bitch-fight with Ezekiel
>from a safe distance.

But I don't take it personally. *Anyone with a progressive agenda
would be treated likewise. These assimilationist queers are barely a
dozen...but they are quite copious in their articles, hence sort of
"own" the gay groups. My presence is a force to stand for the evenutal
arrival of more progressive and radical types...to be at least one
person who *welcomes them, instead of villifies them.

The jaded queer elite, is a clique that has de-democratized the gay
newsgroups. And if you resist them long enough, they go into a real
snit, and begin accusing you of spamming, and send their complaints to
your ISP! This has happened to me already, once, last year! It has
happened again, a few weeks ago...but my ISP apologized, after I
suggested they look into the matter themselves...so after seeing the
threads in which I was involved, they realized their error in belief
the accusations against me.

>Excuse me, please, for interrupting.  Watch the virtual hand ::giggle::

Yes, we may as well have some chuckles over this. Meanwhile, we should
contribute to the liberalizing of gay newsgroups, by making our
presence known, and by starting threads of a more radical/liberal
nature in these groups, on a regular basis. Not that there aren't
already several other progressive thinkers in these groups...we are
still outnumbered by the status quo, het butt-licking
assimilationists.

I am here to dismantle the queer power elite, among other things.
Good grief, Charlie Brown-nose!



---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:47:58 -0700

In article <35F42F69.8968A875@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

> 
>
>Michelle Steiner wrote:
>
>> On the contrary, YOU deny that it is transphobic because you will support
>> Zeke completely, without reservation, regardless of what he says.  You're
>> nothing more than his shrill shill.
>
>Oh, this is comical.
>It is now quite clear to me what your purpose has been in this thread...not to
>educate anyone else, and certainly not to educate or enhance yourself through
>knowledgeable debate and discourse.
>It has been, simply, to carry on some sort of bizarre cyber-bitch-fight with
>Ezekiel from a safe distance.

It is clear to you only because you see yourself in others, and can't
imagine them having motivations other than your own.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:48:21 GMT

On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:47:58 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>It is clear to you only because you see yourself in others, and can't
>imagine them having motivations other than your own.

Thank you Dr. Michelle; hallelujah, I am healed!


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:27:56 GMT

On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:24:16 +0200, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>YOU took it to be transphobic because you wanted to...not because of what was
>actually said.

Michelle leaps before she looks!


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:59:59 GMT

michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes:

>In article <35f30647.15450915@nntp.sj.bigger.net>,
>ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>>On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:52:58 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
>>Steiner) wrote:
>>
>>>Why do you drag in irrelevant questions to distract attention from Zeke's
>>>bigotries?
>>
>>Your remarks are intentionally manipulative, and do not arise from any
>>considirable intellect.

>You're projecting again.  You have demostrated transpohobia, and you and
>your apologist are not going to obfuscate that.

In addition to homophobia, I have demonstrated pyroshmaltzphobia (fear of
burning chidken-fat).


john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry)



========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman)
Date: 3 Sep 1998 09:54:08 -0500

In article <35EDCA1E.4E6ABAFE@earthlink.net>, ciaopubs@earthlink.net wrote:

> Bill Lindemann wrote:
> > 
> > If you want to hack a cartoonist, at least pick one with a demonstrated
> > history of either active or passive homophobia.  My suggestions are "B.C."
> > and "Family Circus".  Hmm...  If you still want to be in-your-face, how
> > about penning a takeoff called "Family Jerkoff"?
> 
> It's been done.  There were a half-dozen "Dysfunctional Family Circus"
mini-comics
> done several years ago.  Hilarious stuff, better than South Park, which
they came
> before.  They were stopped because the parodist eventually met Keane and
decided
> that the guy was too nice.


They were not stopped:

The Dysfunctional Family Circus
http://www.spinnwebe.com/dfc/

-- 
Mike Silverman  --  cubsfan at turnleft.com  --  Lawrence, KS
http://www.turnleft.com/personal

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:54:27 GMT

On 3 Sep 1998 09:54:08 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman)
wrote:

>They were not stopped:
>
>The Dysfunctional Family Circus
>http://www.spinnwebe.com/dfc/

And the "Daddy" even has a big, bright pink triangle on his shirt! Way
to go!

Thanks for finding this site, Mike. I have posted the author the
following:

---begin post

Hello, great stuff, your parody of Family Circus. I am presently being

challenged by Charles Schulz's lawyers, for doing a gay parody on 
Peanuts. Perhaps you can lend some insight, to help me with my case?
One thing I'd like to know is: do you parody Family Circus without 
their specific approval? I would think you don't have to...however,
perhaps you chose to anyway.

Rather than exhaust you with a lengthy message...you can acquaint 
yourself with my Peanuts issue, by going to the following web page: 

	http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm

or its mirror:

	http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

There, you will see the image in question, as well 
as daily updates of all relevent information on this matter.

---end post


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
Either URL below, will keep you updated with the 
"Peenuts" copyright issue:

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 05:29:54 GMT

On Tue, 01 Sep 1998 12:32:15 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester
 wrote:

>Prove to me that this is "anti-gay" or anti-anything except conformity and
>I will eat the book I got it from.

Then why, after all his years of popularity and covering so many
social issues...did he leave out any aspect about gays? The only
reason I can see, is the pressure of society's homophobia...which
weighs heavily on all of us.


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Frank Martinez Lester 
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:40:01 -0700

]]Then why, after all his years of popularity and covering so many
social issues...did he leave out any aspect about gays? The only
reason I can see, is the pressure of society's homophobia...which
weighs heavily on all of us.>>

Mr Krahlin:

It is of no use trying to actually communicate with you.  You have completely
missed the point of my argument.  You have an agenda.  If anyone disagrees or
differs, he/she is the enemy.

As someone with many close heterosexual friends & family, I find the
hatefulness of your website offensive & antagonizing, to say the least.
"GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com" is a sentiment that the ancient Greek
forebears you praise on your site would unquestionably disown.

It is unfortunate that you have had experiences in your life which have led you
to this level of prejudice.

I have nothing further to say to you.

Frank Martinez Lester




========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 08:28:31 GMT

On Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:40:01 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester
 wrote:

>It is of no use trying to actually communicate with you.  

Because you really don't want to.

>You have completely missed the point of my argument.  

I doubt that. I just disagree.

>You have an agenda.  

For more aggressive civil dissent.

>If anyone disagrees or differs, he/she is the enemy.

Nope. Depends on what the disagreement is all about. I take each case
on an individual level.

>As someone with many close heterosexual friends & family, I find the
>hatefulness of your website offensive & antagonizing, to say the least.

Hatred is in the mind of the beholder.  Citizen, heal thyself!

>"GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com" is a sentiment that the ancient Greek
>forebears you praise on your site would unquestionably disown.

Sorry, you lose. What do you think of Rev. Fred Phelps' site known as
"GodHatesFaggots.com"?  I am only giving our arrogant heteros a little
taste of what kind of blasphemy is poured upon us gays every moment of
every day of our lives. What's the matter, can't take it? So what, if
some innocent-bystander gay-friendly heteros get caught in the fray?
*All of us gays are under constant hateful attacks...and aren't we all
innocent? What did we do to be so hated? 

It's only fair that more heteros, who consider themselves gay
friendly, have some of this bitter taste in their own mouths...and
then, perhaps, just perhaps, they will lift a finger to fight with us.
It's not enough just to be "gay friendly", and pat yourself on the
back for saying so. Where's the real action behind that claim? Seems
that 9 out of every 10 hets who call themselves gay friendly, haven't
done one single thing to contribute to gay rights...whether in money
or elbow grease. They are snakes in the grass.

>It is unfortunate that you have had experiences in your life which have led you
>to this level of prejudice.

Far more unfortunate is the awesome homophobia that rips apart our
society!

This level of prejudice you claim I possess, is like less than 1% of
the level of homophobia by your average het. I believe that returning
just that little amount of nastiness will go far in bringing us our
freedom. It is wrong, even treasonous, for gays like you to be so
unquestionably accommodating to heteros. It must end, or we will be
buried.

Don't you see what is being done to us? The anti-gay ad in San
Francisco, DOMA? This is the result of the mass of heteros who are not
part of the religious right...and many who regard themselves as
"progressive". Can you really blame all this sanction against us as
soley a religious right attack?

>I have nothing further to say to you.

If you wish. You are always welcome to change your mind. After all,
this is a terrorist...er, free, country! (And I'm sure Mr. Schulz
would agree with you.)


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: kilpatri@sgi.duh.com
Date: 2 Sep 1998 11:11:13 GMT

ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:

>Sorry, you lose. What do you think of Rev. Fred Phelps' site known as
>"GodHatesFaggots.com"?  I am only giving our arrogant heteros a little
>taste of what kind of blasphemy is poured upon us gays every moment of
>every day of our lives. 

Hatred is evil, no matter what side you're on.  You're just as evil as he
is.  A black racist is less wrong than a white one.

Hating someone for their sexual preference is wrong, no matter what
that preference may be.  All you've done is prove that you're as much
of a wacko nutball as Phelps.  And that's quite an achievement.
--
John A. Kilpatrick                        Systems/Network Administrator
kilpatri@sgi.com                       Silicon Graphics Inc., Team TREX
http://reality.sgi.com/kilpatri/	                 (650) 933-4387
                "Kick! Punch! It's all in the mind..."

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Nicole Lasher 
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 15:26:37 +0300

 

kilpatri@sgi.duh.com wrote:

> ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:
>
> >Sorry, you lose. What do you think of Rev. Fred Phelps' site known as
> >"GodHatesFaggots.com"?  I am only giving our arrogant heteros a little
> >taste of what kind of blasphemy is poured upon us gays every moment of
> >every day of our lives.
>
> Hatred is evil, no matter what side you're on.

This is where your opinion and mine differ, and probably why you have a
problem relating to Ezekiel.  Since it's my job, or my future job, to mediate
such situations, I guess I'll start practicing now....So here goes.

Justified hatred is not evil.  Some people have done things for which they
deserve much hatred indeed.
It is not a good idea to generalize a whole group of people...So perhaps what
you percieve to be his generalization of hetrosexuals is not a good thing,
but his expression of hatred for homophobes most certainly is constructive
for him.
It is better that he express his feelings, feelings that some others share,
than to keep them pent up.  Also, it is good for him to be human...It keeps
those of us who agree with much of what he says aware that he is not a god,
and keeps us thinking for ourselves.
I don't agree with everything Ezekiel says, but I do agree with his
self-preservation, self-defense, and strategic offense, ideas.  If he hates
heterosexuals (which he doesn't, that I can tell, because I can see the
difference between a genuine insult, and a prod) then that is because of his
experiences.  I would never presume to deny him the validity and value of his
experiences.

> You're just as evil as he
> is.  A black racist is less wrong than a white one.

I think you were trying to say a Black racist is no less wrong than a White
one, and in that case, you'd be wrong to.
Let's take the case of Angela Davis vs. the case of Ronald Regan.
They lived in some of the same areas around the same times...
It is doubtful that Ronald Regan has ever been pelted with jars full of piss
by Black men driving by...and yet Ronald Regan is racist.  Most of his
experiences with Blacks during his formative years left him, likely, either
indifferent, or with some physical need met...like his clothes laundered, or
his belly filled...And yet, he is racist.
Angela Davis's experiences with Whites were not exactly great...Her hatred
for Whites is not like Ronald Regan's hatred for Blacks.  Hers is the same as
the lion's hate for a hyena...The hyenas will consume anything in their path,
and though, probably not intending to be "evil" have a certain nature and
culture...They steal food the lions catch, and will even take a cub or a
grown lion if there are enough of them.
It is for this reason that the lion kills hyena, but never eats them.  They
quite literally, hate hyena...Hate is natural.  What we do with hate is what
makes the difference.  Just as lions have never purposefully set out to kill
or enslave every hyena on the planet, Blacks are unlikely to want to do this
to Whites.  The hyena is also, unlikely to ever set out to do this to
lions...So they hate each other, but they know the difference between dislike
and dwelling on hatred.
Only problem is that people are not two different competitive species' like
lions and hyenas...That makes both Regan's and Davis's hate counterporductive
for humanity, but constructive, possibly, for themselves.
It is not the ideal...it is the reality.
When someone is hurt, they remember, and they naturally seek vengeance.
When someone who has not been hurt feels threatened, they will do anything
they can to preserve the systems that keep them in power, for fear of
reciprocation of the pain they have caused directly or indirectly.
Understanding this, and understanding that people have faults, fears, and
insecurities, one must also understand that those faults do not negate the
virtues that person may have.
In a nutshell, accept that the most radical and powerful forces for the gay
rights movement, will be just a tad biased.  Just as with anything or anyone
else, take the good you can get from it, and scrap the rest.
Support the causes you like, and don't support the ones you don't.
I have noticed that a good deal of time is spent talking shit about Ezekiel,
but little time is spent talking about the good things he has to say, and the
fact that some of us think it's high time to stop asking for things from "the
man" and start voting when we should, and shooting when we must.

> Hating someone for their sexual preference is wrong, no matter what
> that preference may be.

Hating someone simply for their color is wrong too, but you have to know the
difference between "hate" and "initial mistrust" (also known as "prejudice")
Prejudice is natural, as is hate, but there is a difference between prejudice
and racism or sexism.  Vanilla-heterocentrics have hurt many of us terribly,
and there is nothing wrong with being wary of people until you know that they
are not out to hurt you.  That's intelligence, and learning from one's
experiences...not hate.

> All you've done is prove that you're as much
> of a wacko nutball as Phelps.  And that's quite an achievement.

Perhaps, but there have been many "whackos" whose philosophies have bettered
the world.  Instead of talking shit, you should be taking notes.
Take what's good for you, discard the rest.

~Niki


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Frank Martinez Lester 
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 11:10:54 -0700

[[I have noticed that a good deal of time is spent talking shit about Ezekiel,
but little time is spent talking about the good things he has to say, and the
fact that some of us think it's high time to stop asking for things from "the
man" and start voting when we should, and shooting when we must.>>

I think hatred is hatred, period.

I do not spend my time making distinctions between hatred justified by the pain
of past experience & plain ignorant-assed heterosexual hatred.  I have had plenty
of hateful experiences in my life.  Nonetheless, I do not post web pages stating
that "breeders must die."  I don't think that calling Ezekiel Krahlin on his
message is "talking shit."

And "shooting when we must"?  What's that about?

[[Perhaps, but there have been many "whackos" whose philosophies have bettered
the world.  Instead of talking shit, you should be taking notes.
Take what's good for you, discard the rest.>>

None of it is good for me.  Hatred is never good.

Therefore, I discard it in its entirety.  I take no notes.






========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 21:41:23 GMT

On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 11:10:54 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester
 wrote:

>I think hatred is hatred, period.

Simple solutions for simple minds.


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Frank Martinez Lester 
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 16:04:12 -0700

[[Simple solutions for simple minds.>>

Let's see. I think I'll start a new Gay Liberation Movement.

I'll put up a website insulting & condemning heterosexuals & calling
gays & lesbians who disagree with me "traitors."

I'll compare myself to Jonathan Swift & figures of ancient Greek history
a lot.

And I'll insult, degrade, & alienate anyone who might be sympathetic to
my cause.

I bet I'll really get a hell of a lot of converts.




========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:08:53 GMT

On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 16:04:12 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester
 wrote:

>And I'll insult, degrade, & alienate anyone who might be sympathetic to
>my cause.

Have fun!


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Jeffrey Croft 
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:54:44 -0700

Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:

> On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 11:10:54 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester
>  wrote:
>
> >I think hatred is hatred, period.
>
> Simple solutions for simple minds.

Oh, please.


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:54:48 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:54:44 -0700, Jeffrey Croft
 wrote:

>> Simple solutions for simple minds.
>
>Oh, please.

With sugar substitute on top (gotta watch that waistline)!


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
Either URL below, will keep you updated with the 
"Peenuts" copyright issue:

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:36:12 GMT

On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 15:26:37 +0300, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>This is where your opinion and mine differ, and probably why you have a
>problem relating to Ezekiel.  Since it's my job, or my future job, to mediate
>such situations, I guess I'll start practicing now....So here goes.

Most of these people who attack me, seem to have a right-wing agenda.
Just because they're gay, is no excuse to pardon them. In fact, it's
treason.

>It is better that he express his feelings, feelings that some others share,
>than to keep them pent up.  Also, it is good for him to be human...It keeps
>those of us who agree with much of what he says aware that he is not a god,
>and keeps us thinking for ourselves.

I'd go nuts, if I repressed all this horrible hatred society dumps on
me for being gay. It's not like I can walk away from it. The recent
anti-gay ad in the S.F. Examiner has me *really pissed off...and now,
this situation with Schulz. Well, I am more than ready to duke it out.

And no, I'm not god. But I am one of the voices of justice. I am
driven by my visions. Yes, I do see and communicate with angelic
forces, or whatever else you want to call them: imaginary playmates,
dreams, subconscious messages, whatever. And I will speak of this
matter in greater length and more often, as time passes, and as I gain
a wider audience in the gay community. I am here, among other things,
to strengthen the troops, and empower as many as I can. You may
consider me as a sergeant drilling the grunts...I'll make men of them
all...or they'll run away whimpering, to cower in some dark shameful
corner.

>I don't agree with everything Ezekiel says, but I do agree with his
>self-preservation, self-defense, and strategic offense, ideas.  

It is vitally important that gays work really hard on bridging our
differences, regardless of disagreements on basic issues. However, I
don't see how right-wing queers can ever bridge this ideological
gap...thus I predict a schism in the gay community really
soon...similar to what happened to the Catholic Church many centuries
ago.

>If he hates heterosexuals (which he doesn't, that I can tell, because I can see the
>difference between a genuine insult, and a prod) then that is because of his
>experiences.  I would never presume to deny him the validity and value of his
>experiences.

I do have some hetero friends and acquaintances who are very
supportive of my stance, and have no problem with it. But these are
true progressive people who understand free speech and human liberty.
They are definitely *not right-wing, nor do they degrad people who are
classified as disabled or poor. Unlike *some participants in this
newsgroup.

>Angela Davis's experiences with Whites were not exactly great...Her hatred
>for Whites is not like Ronald Regan's hatred for Blacks.  Hers is the same as
>the lion's hate for a hyena...

I appreciate your excellent analysis of my situation, ~Niki. And you
have done a fine job of stating where I stand. I cannot see in
incorrect assumption of my attitudes, in your diagnosis.

>When someone is hurt, they remember, and they naturally seek vengeance.

And in the case of gays, we are hurt over and over again, many times
each day. I refuse to live out the rest of  my life in silent anger. I
will speak the truth in the streets, on the Internet, from the
rooftops, in the court room, and everywhere else I may happen to be,
or forced to be.

>Understanding this, and understanding that people have faults, fears, and
>insecurities, one must also understand that those faults do not negate the
>virtues that person may have.

Thank you. Very astute. Unfortunately, I'm afraid your hard-earned
wisdom will fall mostly on deaf ears. But maybe someone will benefit,
even if we don't know who. And for that reason alone, if no other, you
have done a good thing. You are a healer, and a modern-day shaman.

>I have noticed that a good deal of time is spent talking shit about Ezekiel,
>but little time is spent talking about the good things he has to say, 

One person who attacke me last year, has come around to regarding me
as an individual, and acknowledging my good contributions. So it does
pay to stick to your guns, and believe in yourself, your ideals, and
your ability to have influence.


>Perhaps, but there have been many "whackos" whose philosophies have bettered
>the world.  Instead of talking shit, you should be taking notes.

I may be crazy, but I'm *good crazy. 

>Take what's good for you, discard the rest.

I'm good for whatever ails you,
To remove whatever impales you.
I do everything I possibly can:
I'm a medicine man with a positive plan.



---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: kilpatri@sgi.duh.com
Date: 2 Sep 1998 19:47:12 GMT

ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:

>I'd go nuts, if I repressed all this horrible hatred society dumps on
>me for being gay. It's not like I can walk away from it. The recent
>anti-gay ad in the S.F. Examiner has me *really pissed off...and now,
>this situation with Schulz. Well, I am more than ready to duke it out.

Someone dumps a load of shit on you.  But *YOU* have to decide if you're
going to pick it up and carry it.  Maybe you were the most popular
guy in school and didn't have people picking on you, but I long ago
decided that society can KISS MY ASS.  The only things that get me
annoyed are legal obstacles - those have to be removed.  Otherwise,
I'll just be me and anyone who has a problem with it can adress that
brick wall over there.

This attitude was not formed in response to society's feelings about
gays, but rather in response to how some of the people I went to high
school with were at the time (they've mellowed :-).  However, it has
carried over remarkably well...

>It is vitally important that gays work really hard on bridging our
>differences, regardless of disagreements on basic issues. 

Why?  To do that, I must make being gay the #1 issue in my life.  It's not.
I am not consumed by my sexuality.  And I cannot, in good conscience, 
align myself with someone who I fundamentally disagree with - I would have
to compromise some more important values.

>However, I
>don't see how right-wing queers can ever bridge this ideological
>gap...thus I predict a schism in the gay community really
>soon...similar to what happened to the Catholic Church many centuries
>ago.

It is not so black and white.  It's not all 'right wing' and 'left wing'.
Like many of the heteros, a lot of gays are middle of the road.  Yes, I
will work and support people trying to promote gay marriage, but I won't
support someone going around saying 'Got Hates Hets'.

There's left wing, and then there's radical militant left wing.  I'm 
definetly left of center, but not as far as you seem to be.

>I refuse to live out the rest of  my life in silent anger. I
>will speak the truth in the streets, on the Internet, from the
>rooftops, in the court room, and everywhere else I may happen to be,
>or forced to be.

That's fine.  Speak your mind.  But in this great country, with the
excellent concept of free speech, be prepared to take shit for it.

Or you could choose to not get angry....

>I may be crazy, but I'm *good crazy. 

Forgive the comparision, but it almost seems like you're like Puck from 
the third season of the Real World.  Puck on 5 or 6 was fine.  Puck on 
10 got thrown out of the house.
--
John A. Kilpatrick                        Systems/Network Administrator
kilpatri@sgi.com                       Silicon Graphics Inc., Team TREX
http://reality.sgi.com/kilpatri/	                 (650) 933-4387
                "Kick! Punch! It's all in the mind..."

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:45:02 GMT

On 2 Sep 1998 19:47:12 GMT, kilpatri@sgi.duh.com wrote:

>ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:
>
>>I'd go nuts, if I repressed all this horrible hatred society dumps on
>>me for being gay. It's not like I can walk away from it. The recent
>>anti-gay ad in the S.F. Examiner has me *really pissed off...and now,
>>this situation with Schulz. Well, I am more than ready to duke it out.

It becomes increasingly apparent that you have GONE nuts.  "I'd go
nuts" indeed!

ward
"A woman must learn in silence and be completely submissive.
I do not permit a woman to act as teacher
or in any way to have authority over a man;
she must be quiet."
     --St. Paul instructing Timothy, 1Tim2:11f.

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: kilpatri@sgi.duh.com
Date: 2 Sep 1998 19:32:19 GMT

Nicole Lasher  writes:

>It is not a good idea to generalize a whole group of people...So perhaps what
>you percieve to be his generalization of hetrosexuals is not a good thing,
>but his expression of hatred for homophobes most certainly is constructive
>for him.

Maybe it is, but as you say, he does not distinguish between homophobes
and and other heterosexuals, and that is where he is as wrong as Phelps.

For example, I could understand a white person being aprehensive about
African-American people if he or she had been carjacked by a gang member.
But to take that and start throwing the 'n' word around takes it too far.

>I would never presume to deny him the validity and value of his
>experiences.

So the aforementioned carjacking victem is o.k. in hating blacks, and
assuming that all black youths are bangers?  What about if that person
starts actively promoting hatred for blacks?

>I have noticed that a good deal of time is spent talking shit about Ezekiel,
>but little time is spent talking about the good things he has to say, and the
>fact that some of us think it's high time to stop asking for things from "the
>man" and start voting when we should, and shooting when we must.

That's fine.  Feel that way.  I personally think that it's wrong.  And
such militant homosexuality affects me in a way I percieve as negative,
and so I resent it.  If he wishes to make clear that he speaks for himself,
that's fine.  But when such people presume to speak for the 'gay community',
then it reflects on me and makes my life harder.

Just like your average Pakistani muslim doesn't want to be represented by
Osama Bin Ladin, I don't want to be represented by someone who says that
God hates straights.

>Vanilla-heterocentrics have hurt many of us terribly,
>and there is nothing wrong with being wary of people until you know that they
>are not out to hurt you.  That's intelligence, and learning from one's
>experiences...not hate.

And saying that 'God Hates Hets' and such isn't being wary, it's being
actively negative.

>Perhaps, but there have been many "whackos" whose philosophies have bettered
>the world.

Can you name a 'wacko' who, by promoting hatred of a group as large as
one based on sexual preference, did some good?  I'm honestly curious.
--
John A. Kilpatrick                        Systems/Network Administrator
kilpatri@sgi.com                       Silicon Graphics Inc., Team TREX
http://reality.sgi.com/kilpatri/	                 (650) 933-4387
                "Kick! Punch! It's all in the mind..."

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:44:53 GMT

On 2 Sep 1998 19:32:19 GMT, kilpatri@sgi.duh.com wrote:

>Nicole Lasher  writes:
>
>>It is not a good idea to generalize a whole group of people...So perhaps what
>>you percieve to be his generalization of hetrosexuals is not a good thing,
>>but his expression of hatred for homophobes most certainly is constructive
>>for him.

NO, IT IS NOT!  He has no focus on actual homophobes and places all
who are not ready to march off into cloud coo coo land with him as
"traitors turncoats and enemies"  This sort of irrational crap feeds
DIRECTLY into the likes of Rob Arch Ward, the Phelpses and the general
enemy -- THEY are convinced that we are making irrational and
unreasonable demands on them -- they have only to read a few lines of
this nutty stuff to have their prejudices very nicely reenforced 

He may be walking out in front of the parade but the lettering on his
placard is gibberish.

ward


-------------------
>
>That's fine.  Feel that way.  I personally think that it's wrong.  And
>such militant homosexuality affects me in a way I percieve as negative,

Perhaps an error here -- his is not "militant homosexuality", but
rather flamboyant folly.  Sound and fury signifying nothing!

ward


"A woman must learn in silence and be completely submissive.
I do not permit a woman to act as teacher
or in any way to have authority over a man;
she must be quiet."
     --St. Paul instructing Timothy, 1Tim2:11f.

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Nicole Lasher 
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:41:44 +0300

 

Ward Stewart wrote: He has no focus on actual homophobes and places all

> who are not ready to march off into cloud coo coo land with him as
> "traitors turncoats and enemies"

Not all, Ward...Just you and a few other people.
If you will pass judgment on his perspective, then let's stick to the facts.
Here's rational for you:
More than just gay males and lesbians support his site.
In fact, there is a bisexual site linked with flashy banners, to Ezekiel's site...A
site that contains a report that says that sexual orientation is fluid.
This is something that Ezekiel doesn't agree with, and yet, he links to their
site...and he doesn't call them traitors...
Nor does he think of me as a traitor even though he knows we differ on a few
things...
This is proof that he does indeed support and give more voice to different and/or
opposing opinions...Which is certainly more than can be said for yourself, Ward.
The truth is, likely, that you don't really know Ezekiel well at all...You just
take what triggers your insecurities from a few posts here and there, and go off on
a P.C. tangent.  You also, apparently, have not explored his site, and have made
assumptions based on a shadowy surface scan that didn't, apparently, take you to
one of the most prominently displayed sites there.
Ezekiel is loud and proud, and yes, sometimes inflammatory.
And yes, he seems to believe that if you aren't part of the solution, then you are
part of the problem...but how does that differ from any other effective activist
that you know of?
How many activists do you know of who say, "Oh, it's okay if you just sit on your
duff on election day...we don't mind...and oh, don't worry about defending yourself
or speaking out...We'll take care of that for you...You just sit on your hiney, and
let "us" take care of everything..."
No, They say "Get off your ass and DO something!" and then, they tell you why it
needs to be done.  Ezekiels reasons for activism are, of course, going to differ
from yours or mine...but do they take away from the fact that *something* needs to
be done?
Is he wrong for bringing up possible ideas for handling the situation, some
feasible, some not so feasible?

> This sort of irrational crap feeds
> DIRECTLY into the likes of Rob Arch Ward, the Phelpses and the general
> enemy --

Does every idea that anyone presents have to be measured by YOUR standards of
"rationality"?

> THEY are convinced that we are making irrational and
> unreasonable demands on them -- they have only to read a few lines of
> this nutty stuff to have their prejudices very nicely reenforced

Oh, they don't need Ezekiel to do that.
And as I said awhile ago...They should be scared.
They should be as afraid to call a Gay person a derogatory name to their face as
they are to call a Black person a derogatory name to their face.
Fortunately, because of people like Ezekiel, this is becoming the case.  Homophobes
should be the ones driven underground...not us.

> He may be walking out in front of the parade but the lettering on his
> placard is gibberish.
>
> ward

Perhaps gibberish to you because you don't understand it?
When someone is speaking another language that you don't understand, it sounds like
gibberish, but it does have a meaning if you take the time to learn the language.
Ezekiel speaks a different language than you, and despite his best attempts at
interpreting, you still refuse to understand.
A person from a warrior culture cannot possibly explain the value of their
perspective to one from a pacifistic culture until the pacifist has an experience
that teaches them the value of fighting.
You must realize that it is not the threat of being seen as a bad person that keeps
most homophobes from physical violence towards homosexuals.  It is the threat of
police action or retaliation.  There is still much gay-bashing because homophobes
in many areas are not afraid of police action or retaliation...and in those places,
it gets worse by the day, not better, until awareness is raised, and people get
angry enough to demand more from their lawmakers and law enforcement, and of
themselves.
There is a difference between what is ideal and what is real.  The ideal would be
to concentrate solely on education as a means of change.  But with that education
must come empowerment, both mental and physical.  Education without empowerment is
about as useful as empowerment without education.  Why do you have such a problem
with the empowerment part?
Are you afraid that if you used your right to bear arms, and were as vocal about
self-defense as you were about the gay rights hypotheticals, that people would be
afraid of you, or do you fear your own potential?

Okay, maybe those questions are too deep...but I'll explain in another way...
Sometimes it is better to see things from the outside to gain a better perspective.

Let's take, for example, the arguments between today's "feminists".
There is one school of thought among feminists that women should concentrate solely
on education and legislation as a means for change.
There is another school of thought that believes physical training for
self-defense, combat, and/or firearms should be added to that.
One side believes we should not have to be able to physically defend ourselves, or
physically defend other women who are not capable of doing so for themselves, as a
matter of principle and ideal.  They take this idealistic principle and call women
who do believe in physical enforcement of equality, "traitors who are undoing all
the good that we've done, yadda yadda yadda".
The other side calls the legalists, "traitors who think that they should depend on
the male majority law enforcement to do what we should be doing for ourselves,
yadda yadda yadda."
Truth is that both sides have value.  When a law needs to be changed or passed, it
is the legalists who write them out, and provide the rallying cries, and organize
the non-violent protests.
When stuff gets out of hand because the sexist/heterocentric/homophobic males
suddenly find themselves threatened, and take it out on their nearest female, who
is usually a spouse, lover, or relative, it is the warrior women who run the
shelters, do security there, or provide private, armed security to friends and
neighbors who have been abused, who cash the checks that the legalists wrote.
In case you haven't noticed, a good deal of attacks on women have been countered
with self-defense.  The reasons for the attacks vary, but MANY times it is because
the woman is assumed to be a lesbian...and a sexist/heterocentric/homophobe sees a
woman as an easier target than a man.
Though the average woman may not have the same upper body strength level as the
average man, with training, the majority of women could be better fighters and
shooters than the average man...but alas, the majority of women have actually
fallen for the belief that a woman shouldn't have to be strong to survive...that
it's the police's and other men's jobs to enforce our freedoms.  So we are still
being assaulted and killed in ever-increasing numbers.

Now do you see the reason Ezekiel is angry?
He is on the warrior side, and was called a traitor...So now he is calling you and
a few others, traitors back.  You turned your back on him, so he is turning his
back on you...To me, that is the saddest part of all of this.
The warriors and the administrators will always disagree, because they are standing
at different ends of the battle.  The disagreement, however, doesn't have to turn
into alienation unless you want it to.
If you feel alienated, it is not because Ezekiel is rejecting you out of the clear
blue...It is because you rejected him first.  You never gave him a chance, and
focused on the petty issues of perception, rather than the bigger issues of
reality.  Instead of joining with him as one of the representatives of the warrior
minded of the community, making clear that you disagreed with some parts, but
working on constructive ways of handling the problem of violent homophobia; you
attacked him.
Being a warrior, he doesn't take these things lightly, and so he attacked back.
It would be comical, were there not so much at stake.
It reminds me of something I heard of a Klansman saying...that they don't have to
kill Blacks anymore because we kill each other, and as long as they can keep us
divided, we do their job for them.
I'd say, from watching you and your few cohorts go after Ezekiel, that the RR was
doing quite well at keeping us divided.
 I suggest that we all stop arguing about this sort of pettiness, and start
actually having real discussions instead of hypothetical pissing contests.  Let's
tackle the realities, and then worry about the philosophies.
Let the administrative types be administrative types without trying to negate the
value of the warriors...and let the warriors be warriors without trying to negate
the value of the administrators.
Let's see if we can fit into our roles without degrading one another.
As it stands, we can't afford to waste anyone...not even the pacifists ::grin::

~Niki


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Frank Martinez Lester 
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:28:38 -0700

[[It reminds me of something I heard of a Klansman saying...that they don't have to
kill Blacks anymore because we kill each other, and as long as they can keep us
divided, we do their job for them.>>

Nicole, I totally agree.  But I also think that hatred, of the kind that Mr Krahlin
clearly & unambiguously promotes on his site (and I have not just done a "surface scan"
of it), is unconscionable, whether it is in the guise of "activism" or not.

I do not think that his site is going to rally more activists to the Warrior Cause.  It
is just going to piss people off, alienate them, & how is THAT "tackling the
realities"?  Answer me that.








========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:55:42 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:28:38 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester
 wrote:

>Nicole, I totally agree.  

Untrue. If you totally agree, then you'd regard my website as valuable
to the gay cause...which you don't.

>But I also think that hatred, of the kind that Mr Krahlin
>clearly & unambiguously promotes on his site (and I have not just done a "surface scan"
>of it), is unconscionable, whether it is in the guise of "activism" or not.

Well...if hatred to you is righteous rage, there's not much that can
be done! I am looking for relfective minds, not concrete ones.

>I do not think that his site is going to rally more activists to the Warrior Cause.  

We'll see, we'll see.  We'll see, as soon as the Schulz hits the fan!

>is just going to piss people off, alienate them, & how is THAT "tackling the
>realities"?  Answer me that.

Have you had your latest feeding from Mama's nipple before you
composed your message? Answer me that.


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
Either URL below, will keep you updated with the 
"Peenuts" copyright issue:

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Nicole Lasher 
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:52:15 +0200

 

Dan Berkes wrote:

> And why does this sound exactly like something I read on Fred Phelp's website?

Perhaps it is because you are blind in more ways than one.

~Niki


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:04:03 GMT

On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:52:15 +0200, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>> And why does this sound exactly like something I read on Fred Phelp's website?
>
>Perhaps it is because you are blind in more ways than one.

I would have to agree.



---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: danberkes@hotmail.com (Dan Berkes)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 12:50:56 -0800

In article <35f3067a.15501884@nntp.sj.bigger.net>,
ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote:

> On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:52:15 +0200, Nicole Lasher
>  wrote:
> 
> >> And why does this sound exactly like something I read on Fred Phelp's
website?
> >
> >Perhaps it is because you are blind in more ways than one.

Perhaps it's because the comparison is a wee bit uncomfortable for certain
folks during the heat of debate? From my viewpoint, I compare two
extremists who both think that their attacks and methods are justified,
and who have inadvertently generated support for those that they would
wish to target.

As far as the cartoon is concerned, which was the topic of the thread,
I'll wait for the courts to decide.

As far as being "blind" goes, physician, heal thyself.

-- 
Dan Berkes // http://www.outguide.com/dan
mailto: first initial, last name @ value.net

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 18:14:11 GMT

On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:52:15 +0200, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>Dan Berkes wrote:

>> And why does this sound exactly like something I read on Fred Phelp's website?

>Perhaps it is because you are blind in more ways than one.

Are you one of Eugene's "angelic choir", or do you occasionally have
an original thought in what passes for your head?

Eugene _is_ making the same statements as Phelps.  He's directing his
bile toward heterosexuals (and not-radical-enough homosexuals, and
not-gay-supportive-enough bisexuals) with the same blanket
condemnations as Phelps, and you, his pet apologist, support and
nurture that while talking about what a wonderful job you do of seeing
both sides.

Hah!

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:28:10 GMT

On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 18:14:11 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J.
Northwood) wrote:

>Are you one of Eugene's "angelic choir"

I want to get to this "Eugene" point. So you discovered on my website,
my old name was Eugene...wow! Like it's some big dark secret that you
now can hold over me. Doesn't it occur to you, that if I did *not like
my birth name, I would not announce it on something so globally public
as the Internet?

I changed my name because my lover died, and to acknowledged that a
part of me went with him, I let Eugene Frank Catalano die, and gave
myself a new name.  Your use of my old name, only signifies your
immaturity, and unintelligent behavior. You really think you have
something on me, don't you? (guffaw!)

All friends who knew me before I changed my name, are welcome to
continue calling me Eugene or Gene...I have no problem with this. The
only problem I do have, is if they should write a check to me, or mail
a letter...then they *must use my new name of Ezekiel Joseph Krahlin.

The problem you will have, is to create confusion as to whom you are
talking about...including towards those who are in agreement with your
pathetic statements. Who am I to intercede in this matter?

>Eugene _is_ making the same statements as Phelps.  He's directing his
>bile toward heterosexuals (and not-radical-enough homosexuals, and
>not-gay-supportive-enough bisexuals) with the same blanket
>condemnations as Phelps, and you, his pet apologist, support and
>nurture that while talking about what a wonderful job you do of seeing
>both sides.

This theory is quite speculative, if not just plain full of very large
holes. I have already explained thoroughly, and in complete detail,
where I stand on these issues. And I have saved those threads in which
I have discussed these matters, and made them available on my web
sites, to anyone who cares to examine them.

There is no point in my refuting your preposterous claims, as you will
continue to say the same old drivel...and I will not allow myself to
be distracted by minor demons.

>Hah!

Yes, aren't you the victorious one. Enjoy your little victories.


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 22:08:38 GMT

On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:28:10 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel
Krahlin) wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 18:14:11 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J.
>Northwood) wrote:

>>Are you one of Eugene's "angelic choir"

>I want to get to this "Eugene" point. So you discovered on my website,
>my old name was Eugene...wow! Like it's some big dark secret that you
>now can hold over me. Doesn't it occur to you, that if I did *not like
>my birth name, I would not announce it on something so globally public
>as the Internet?

Actually, no.  You've made the point of your "name change" often
enough.  As you haven't evinced the maturity to call others by their
rightful names (such as your frequent lipping of "Trenchmouth",
"RavensFart" and "Wart"), why should you expect the courtesy of your
new name being used?

Doesn't it occur to you that, if you _wanted_ your name used
correctly, you would use others' names correctly?

>I changed my name because my lover died, and to acknowledged that a
>part of me went with him, I let Eugene Frank Catalano die, and gave
>myself a new name.  

< shrug >

We all have reasons we've done something similar.

For some, it's tragedy, for others, joy.

>Your use of my old name, only signifies your
>immaturity, and unintelligent behavior. 

Yes, lad, I'm sure that, to you, it does.

>You really think you have
>something on me, don't you? (guffaw!)

Hardly.

That thought never crossed my mind.

>All friends who knew me before I changed my name, are welcome to
>continue calling me Eugene or Gene...I have no problem with this. The
>only problem I do have, is if they should write a check to me, or mail
>a letter...then they *must use my new name of Ezekiel Joseph Krahlin.

You changed your name to E. Joseph Krahlin.

Sort of like how Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvil changed his name to
V. Josef Stalin.

Hmmm -- E. Joseph Krahlin, V. Josef Stalin . . .

The mind boggles.

Please, you were telling us all how to lead our lives.

Do go on.

>The problem you will have, is to create confusion as to whom you are
>talking about...

No, ducks, it's blindingly obvious who I'm addressing.

>including towards those who are in agreement with your
>pathetic statements. 

Ah.

My pathetic statements, eh?

Like pointing out your repeated lies?

Like pointing out where you don't know what you're talking about w/r/t
virii and so forth?

Like pointing out that you're a twit?

Do tell.

(Oh, and again, .)

>Who am I to intercede in this matter?

Who indeed?

Nobody, to be sure.

>>Eugene _is_ making the same statements as Phelps.  He's directing his
>>bile toward heterosexuals (and not-radical-enough homosexuals, and
>>not-gay-supportive-enough bisexuals) with the same blanket
>>condemnations as Phelps, and you, his pet apologist, support and
>>nurture that while talking about what a wonderful job you do of seeing
>>both sides.

>This theory is quite speculative, if not just plain full of very large
>holes. 

Hardly.

Exchange "fag" or "homosexual" for the majority of your rants and
they'll read precisely as though they came off the GodHatesFags web
site.

>I have already explained thoroughly, and in complete detail,
>where I stand on these issues. 

Yes, you have done a great job of lying repeatedly about a number of
things.  It seems to be your m.o.

>And I have saved those threads in which
>I have discussed these matters, and made them available on my web
>sites, to anyone who cares to examine them.

Yes.  And I'm sure they've been "un-retouched", as well.

The point, lad, is that other people have seen the threads, other
people have read your words, and other people realize what a lying
little prat you are.

< shrug >

No skin off my nose, tho.

>There is no point in my refuting your preposterous claims, as you will
>continue to say the same old drivel...and I will not allow myself to
>be distracted by minor demons.

Surely.

After all, you're still dealing with Peanuts envy.

>>Hah!

>Yes, aren't you the victorious one. Enjoy your little victories.

Hmmm?

Sorry, lad, but it doesn't count as a victory unless there was some
effort involved in the win.

Night-night.

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:42:06 -0700

In article <6t1lim$dva$3@news-1.news.gte.net>, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net
(J. Northwood) wrote:

>Actually, no.  You've made the point of your "name change" often
>enough.  As you haven't evinced the maturity to call others by their
>rightful names (such as your frequent lipping of "Trenchmouth",
>"RavensFart" and "Wart"), why should you expect the courtesy of your
>new name being used?

Do you really expect EZ Kill to hold himself to the same set of standards
that he demands of others?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:48:25 GMT

On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 22:08:38 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J.
Northwood) wrote:

>>And I have saved those threads in which
>>I have discussed these matters, and made them available on my web
>>sites, to anyone who cares to examine them.
>
>Yes.  And I'm sure they've been "un-retouched", as well.

They certainly do remain in their original state. You will find many
people disagreeing with me, and villifying me, there...as they did in
the actual exchange. I have change not one thing. 

This is one reason I don't take your attacks upon me as being
deluded...because you and others readily make blatantly false
accussations than anyone can easily debunk with simple references,
publicly available.


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:11:00 GMT

On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:48:25 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel
Krahlin) wrote:

>This is one reason I don't take your attacks upon me as being
>deluded...because you and others readily make blatantly false
>accussations than anyone can easily debunk with simple references,
>publicly available.

LOL!

Sure thing, delusion-boy.

You know what the funniest part of your rants and diatribes is?  That
every one of your hate-filled and lying posts has been pointed out to
you repeatedly, yet your "illness" doesn't allow you to admit that
fact.

And you say others can't face facts or "reality".

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: sheroux@europa.nospam.com (RavensHeart)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:14:22 GMT

On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:48:25 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel
Krahlin) wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 22:08:38 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J.
>Northwood) wrote:
>
>>>And I have saved those threads in which
>>>I have discussed these matters, and made them available on my web
>>>sites, to anyone who cares to examine them.
>>
>>Yes.  And I'm sure they've been "un-retouched", as well.
>
>They certainly do remain in their original state. You will find many
>people disagreeing with me, and villifying me, there...as they did in
>the actual exchange. I have change not one thing. 
>
>This is one reason I don't take your attacks upon me as being
>deluded...because you and others readily make blatantly false
>accussations than anyone can easily debunk with simple references,
>publicly available.
>
>
On 8/23/98 at 5:28am, exekieljk@my-dejanews.com(Ezekiel Krahlin)
wrote:

 I am also an angelic spirit who speaks through Zeke,
from time to time...or in this case, types through his fingers, as I
am doing this very moment. This is how schizophrenia can be
transformed into the psyche's most powerful tool. We *insist that he
glorify himself from time to time, as the path we have chosen for him
is often very rough...meaning among other things, with little if any
pats on the back from his fellow humans. He does, however, get plenty
of pats from us, his guardian spirits. 

You have absolutely no power over him, a
loyal servant of the White Sister/Brotherhood (the angels). Your
insistance that Zeke deserves no recognition or reward, bespeaks one
who dabbles in the black arts...using one's tongue to condemn through
reptitious chants of denigration. 

He has *our help.  We are his archetypal archangels, better than
thorazine, stellazine, hellazine, mellowzine, getwellazine, or even
the sanctified prozac...or anything else man's dark sciences can
conjure up.

But our Angelic Order sustains him with courage and insight...
let's leave it at that, for now. Zeke needs his sleep.


Go back to sleep zekaroni.

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:39:05 GMT

On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:14:22 GMT, sheroux@europa.nospam.com
(RavensHeart) wrote:

>But our Angelic Order sustains him with courage and insight...
>let's leave it at that, for now. Zeke needs his sleep.
>
>
>Go back to sleep zekaroni.

Do you think it's an easy thing to stay away, perusing your sort of
drivel?

But I knew you'd enjoy my angelic rant...you're all over that one,
arent' you? And you're doing with it exactly what I want you to. God,
I'm good!

Creamy dreamy RavensHeart:
Tries to speak, but only farts.
Gives himself a holy name,
Then uses it to mock and maim.

What would Edgar Allen do,
Should meet a raven just like you?
I think he'd quickly learn the score--
Raise a fist to you, implore:
"Raven's raving nevermore!"


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:55:11 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:41:44 +0300, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>I'd say, from watching you and your few cohorts go after Ezekiel, that the RR was
>doing quite well at keeping us divided.

What we are up against, Nicole, is a society brainwashed to believe
that, what was once considered liberal and progressive as a good,
healthy attitude in righting wrongs...has now become regarded as
anti-Amerikan and diabolical. Unfortunately, many gays have bought
into this dogma, too. And, as you so correctly point out, the RR has
done a good job of tricking the masses into believing their bullshit.
The result? Many gays are no less conformist than our bible thumpers
and other enemies, who will annihilate all gays whenever and wherever
they get the chance.

I hope you excellent and well written prognosis addressed to Wart,
will reach a few more ears.


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
Either URL below, will keep you updated with the 
"Peenuts" copyright issue:

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Nicole Lasher 
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:28:32 +0300

 

Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:

> Unfortunately, many gays have bought
> into this dogma, too. And, as you so correctly point out, the RR has
> done a good job of tricking the masses into believing their bullshit.

Yes, that's why it was invented in the first place...to control the masses.  They're
better at it, because they have about 6000 years worth of practice. (The estimated
time since the concept of "god" became displaced from nature.)
I believe the ancient Greeks attempted to counter this shift in theology by
purposefully keeping the "gods" nepotist and arbitrary rather than "just", but time
has proven that the majority of people aren't capable of handling this.  Mostly has to
do with self confidence.

> I hope you excellent and well written prognosis addressed to Wart,
> will reach a few more ears.

I hope so too, though I don't expect many to respond.  This thread has brought to the
surface most of the root of certain peoples' problems with you.  Hopefully I've helped
to give you and them alot to think about, but that's my (future) job.  ::huggles::

~Niki
 


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:58:09 GMT

On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:28:32 +0300, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>> I hope you excellent and well written prognosis addressed to Wart,
>> will reach a few more ears.
>
>I hope so too, though I don't expect many to respond.  This thread has brought to the
>surface most of the root of certain peoples' problems with you.  

It ain't the first thread, believe me...it's just that I have begun my
next duties as a warrior...and must begin to separate chaff from
which, as well as educate. For the civil war/jihad against gays is
soon to bust through. My role is to turn it into one, big, hilarious
and bloodless adventure...with gays victorious.

>Hopefully I've helped to give you and them alot to think about, 
>but that's my (future) job.  ::huggles::

This is why I appreciate so much, that you were so kind as to take the
time to do so, Nicole! But as you can see, I am very self confident,
and completely aware of my destiny. I think many who hate me now, will
befriend me a little ways further down the line.



---
Right-wing queers are all it takes
To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes.
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Either URL below, will keep you updated 
with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue:
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Jeffrey Croft 
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 15:46:16 -0700

> Yes, that's why it was invented in the first place...to control the masses.  They're
> better at it, because they have about 6000 years worth of practice. (The estimated
> time since the concept of "god" became displaced from nature.)
> I believe the ancient Greeks attempted to counter this shift in theology by
> purposefully keeping the "gods" nepotist and arbitrary rather than "just", but time
> has proven that the majority of people aren't capable of handling this.  Mostly has to
> do with self confidence.

Yes, it's much easier in the short run to abdicate all personal responsibility to some
kind of god or demon. God is testing me, satan made me do it, it's god's will, that sort
of thing.

Jeff
jdcroft@nospam.best.com



========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:01:12 -0700

In article <35EE6458.CA4C4A28@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>How many activists do you know of who say, "Oh, it's okay if you just sit on
>your duff on election day...we don't mind...and oh, don't worry about
>defending yourself or speaking out...We'll take care of that for you...You just
>sit on your hiney, and let "us" take care of everything..."
>No, They say "Get off your ass and DO something!" and then, they tell you why
>it needs to be done. 

If that's what he would have done, I would have supported him fully, but he
goes beyond that and accuses those who aren't activists of sharing the
values of our oppressors.  It's like accusing the Swiss of siding with our
enemies because they don't side with us.

>They should be as afraid to call a Gay person a derogatory name to their
>face as
>they are to call a Black person a derogatory name to their face.
>Fortunately, because of people like Ezekiel, this is becoming the case. 

I disagree; I doubt that he's having any such effect on them.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:58:11 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:01:12 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>I disagree; I doubt that he's having any such effect on them.

Wait'll the Schulz hits the fan!



---
Right-wing queers are all it takes
To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes.
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Either URL below, will keep you updated 
with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue:
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:38:08 -0700

In article <35efc152.25801355@nntp.sj.bigger.net>,
ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:01:12 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
>Steiner) wrote:
>
>>I disagree; I doubt that he's having any such effect on them.
>
>Wait'll the Schulz hits the fan!

The results will be peanuts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:25 GMT

On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:38:08 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>>Wait'll the Schulz hits the fan!
>
>The results will be peanuts.

Well, I certainly wouldn't work for peanuts!


---
Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says:
"Throw the hetero over the fence some hay."
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass!
To find out why, choose either URL below:
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 18:13:01 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:01:12 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>In article <35EE6458.CA4C4A28@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher
> wrote:
>
>>How many activists do you know of who say, "Oh, it's okay if you just sit on
>>your duff on election day...we don't mind...and oh, don't worry about
>>defending yourself or speaking out...We'll take care of that for you...You just
>>sit on your hiney, and let "us" take care of everything..."
>>No, They say "Get off your ass and DO something!" and then, they tell you why
>>it needs to be done. 
>
>If that's what he would have done, I would have supported him fully, but he
>goes beyond that and accuses those who aren't activists of sharing the
>values of our oppressors.  It's like accusing the Swiss of siding with our
>enemies because they don't side with us.


Actually what he does is even worse, less sensible, less realistic
than that -- he has decided that the activists who are not activists
in PRECISELY the way that he is are traitors.  Those who do not yell
on street-corners about the glory of Thrace are all Homophobes.

The guy is a nut case -- unfortunately he is not amusing and the net
effect of his ravings and ramblings is that the genuine homophobes who
stand arrayed against us are reenforced in their delusions by the
sight of the King of Thrace and by the stupid things he says.

ward



-----------------------------------------------------
"They have to convert our agenda into something aggressive. Two
guys wanting to be happy together are invading their marriages.
Helping a kid who's getting beaten up in school is promoting
homosexuality. If you gave me a million dollars, I wouldn't know
how to promote homosexuality. Do I hire Don King?"
                                  Barney Frank
-----------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:33 GMT

On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 18:13:01 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
wrote:

>The guy is a nut case -- unfortunately he is not amusing and the net
>effect of his ravings and ramblings is that the genuine homophobes who
>stand arrayed against us are reenforced in their delusions by the
>sight of the King of Thrace and by the stupid things he says.

You're only degrading yourself in the long run, Wart, by making such
rude statements about me...and in some cases, very crude remarks that
bespeak a less than considerate or responsible human being. Do you
really think degrading your own validity for the sake of fullfilling
your own petty spite, will do you any good?



---
Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says:
"Throw the hetero over the fence some hay."
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass!
To find out why, choose either URL below:
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:53:47 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:44:53 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
wrote:

>>>It is not a good idea to generalize a whole group of people...So perhaps what
>>>you percieve to be his generalization of hetrosexuals is not a good thing,
>>>but his expression of hatred for homophobes most certainly is constructive
>>>for him.
>
>NO, IT IS NOT!  He has no focus on actual homophobes and places all
>who are not ready to march off into cloud coo coo land with him as
>"traitors turncoats and enemies" 

You must forgive our Wart, for he knows not what he babbles. Living in
Hawaii, one can easily suffer the misfortune of a coconut (or magma
chunk) falling on one's head.



---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
Either URL below, will keep you updated with the 
"Peenuts" copyright issue:

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:39:43 -0700

In article <35ED397D.F7DDD158@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>kilpatri@sgi.duh.com wrote:
>
>> ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:
>>
>> >Sorry, you lose. What do you think of Rev. Fred Phelps' site known as
>> >"GodHatesFaggots.com"?  I am only giving our arrogant heteros a little
>> >taste of what kind of blasphemy is poured upon us gays every moment of
>> >every day of our lives.
>>
>> Hatred is evil, no matter what side you're on.
>
>This is where your opinion and mine differ, and probably why you have a
>problem relating to Ezekiel.  Since it's my job, or my future job, to mediate
>such situations, I guess I'll start practicing now....So here goes.
>
>Justified hatred is not evil.  Some people have done things for which they
>deserve much hatred indeed.
>It is not a good idea to generalize a whole group of people...So perhaps what
>you percieve to be his generalization of hetrosexuals is not a good thing,
>but his expression of hatred for homophobes most certainly is constructive
>for him.

He has extended his justifiable hatred of homophobes to everyone who is not
on the front lines fighting homophobia.  That is not only not justifiable,
it is not rational.

--Michelle

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:08:56 GMT

On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:39:43 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>He has extended his justifiable hatred of homophobes to everyone who is not
>on the front lines fighting homophobia.  That is not only not justifiable,
>it is not rational.

Hardly. I am criticizing the continued silence in the face of anti-gay
hatred, by a majority of heteros, including those who consider
themselves liberal and gay-friendly. This goes for our liberal
mainstream newspaper of the "gay mecca", the S.F. Examiner...which
recently printed a full-page anti-gay ad. This goes for our liberal
heteros who hang out in gay clubs and bars, then try to sue these
places for being kicked out for heavy petting. As if gays were so
welcome at hetero hangouts!

These are not from the religious right, dear! And there are way more
of them, than they'd like to let on. This is comparable to the
situation for Jews in pre-Nazi Germany: the seething anti-semitism was
already there, long before Nazis rose to power. They just used this
unresolved hatred to foment it into terrorism and tyranny. We still
have a massive undercurrent of homophobia seething throughout
Amerika...and the religious right is using it much as the Nazis did.
They are stirring the pot of homophobia which goes way beyond the
bounds of KKKristian fundamentalist circles.



---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Bill Lindemann 
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 02:37:52 +0000

Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:

> Hardly. I am criticizing the continued silence in the face of anti-gay
> hatred, by a majority of heteros, including those who consider
> themselves liberal and gay-friendly. This goes for our liberal
> mainstream newspaper of the "gay mecca", the S.F. Examiner...which
> recently printed a full-page anti-gay ad.

I too was extremely bothered by that ad, but I am willing togive them a chance
to prove themselves.  Also, being of a
scientific slant of mind, I'm curious to test their assertions via
experiment.

So, I keep trying to think of how to get together a group of people
to pony up $35,000 and what ad to try placing.  The obvious
problems are:

1) Most people would be squeamish about trying to place an ad
    maligning groups that we like, even if holding one's nose and
    doing it would help defuse the Examiner's claim of merely
    presenting varied points of view.  To this end, I suppose, ads
    saying "We're here to say that you can change from being a dumb
    n***" or "It's not impossible to change from a baby-Jesus-killer
    to a Christian" are out.  (Note: I'm not being racist or anti-Jewish,
    just pointing out that that's about the same impact as the anti-gay
    ad had)

2) It would reflect back badly on the gay community if it were seen as
    being posted by us; thus a front organization is needed.

3) It would be best if we could kill two birds with one stone by implying
    that a *real* group we don't like placed the ad, but I'm sure the
    Examiner wouldn't go along with that.  That leaves forming an
    anonymous front group, but, sheesh!  Shades of terrorist bombings!
    "A previously unknown gay organization today took responsibility
    for the ad placed yesterday in the SF Examiner..."

So, aside from the obvious (and justifiable) counter-argument that
$35,000 would be entirely wasted money, better spent elsewhere,
anyone have any ideas how this could be done?  It would be fun
just doing the "thought experiment", especially since the details
could be used as the basis for a short story, and stories have a way of
changing people's minds too, if they're realistically written.

-Bill



========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:20:37 -0700

In article <35ee0e16.4304714@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com
wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:39:43 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
>Steiner) wrote:
>
>>He has extended his justifiable hatred of homophobes to everyone who is not
>>on the front lines fighting homophobia.  That is not only not justifiable,
>>it is not rational.
>
>Hardly. I am criticizing the continued silence in the face of anti-gay
>hatred, by a majority of heteros, including those who consider
>themselves liberal and gay-friendly.

Well, as I said, you must be anti-woman, a racist, and a religious bigot; I
don't see you fighting misogyny, racism, and relgious bigotry.
>
>These are not from the religious right, dear! And there are way more
>of them, than they'd like to let on. This is comparable to the
>situation for Jews in pre-Nazi Germany: the seething anti-semitism was
>already there, long before Nazis rose to power. They just used this
>unresolved hatred to foment it into terrorism and tyranny. We still
>have a massive undercurrent of homophobia seething throughout
>Amerika...and the religious right is using it much as the Nazis did.

It's not as massive as you have deluded yoruself into thinking.

>They are stirring the pot of homophobia which goes way beyond the
>bounds of KKKristian fundamentalist circles.

You are doing more to stir the pot of homophobia than they are.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:58:15 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:20:37 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>Well, as I said, you must be anti-woman, a racist, and a religious bigot; I
>don't see you fighting misogyny, racism, and relgious bigotry.

Ridiculous and ignorant things to say. I am dedicated to gay
rights...I do not have time to take care of everyone else's. When I
fight these other prejudices, it is always in a gay dimension. You see
me presently fighting corporate power, which attempts to suppress my
free speech. I do this on behalf of gay rights. This is more than
enough for now, I can't handle any more.

It is terribly silly, however, for accusing me of not fighting for all
other prejudices...as if any one person could do that. To chastise me
for *only focusing on gay rights smacks of homophobia.

>It's not as massive as you have deluded yoruself into thinking.

Sure, that's why our progressive, democrat, gay-friendly President
signed DOMA. That's why, this last time Rev. Phelps came to town, he
was protected by S.F. cops. That's why the S.F. Examiner recently
published an anti-gay ad. I could go on, but I won't.

>You are doing more to stir the pot of homophobia than they are.

Really?  Why don't you try suing me, then?  Homophobia's a terrible
thing, and you should try to stop me, if you really believe this.


---
Right-wing queers are all it takes
To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes.
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Either URL below, will keep you updated 
with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue:
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:44:51 -0700

In article <35efc175.25836210@nntp.sj.bigger.net>,
ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>>Well, as I said, you must be anti-woman, a racist, and a religious bigot; I
>>don't see you fighting misogyny, racism, and relgious bigotry.
>
>Ridiculous and ignorant things to say. I am dedicated to gay
>rights...I do not have time to take care of everyone else's.

Yet you accuse those who do not actively support gay rights (even though
they might, for all you know, be fighting other abuses of rights) of being
anti-gay.

>>It's not as massive as you have deluded yoruself into thinking.
>
>Sure, that's why our progressive, democrat, gay-friendly President
>signed DOMA.

IMO, he's not as gay friendly as he makes himself out to be; DOMA and
"don't ask, don't tell" being his two biggest follies.

>That's why, this last time Rev. Phelps came to town, he
>was protected by S.F. cops. 

He was not being protected for his views; he was being protected as a
citizen.  Even assholes like Phelps are jerks.  I was in the crowd outside
Grace Cathedral when when he picketted Randy Shilts's memorial service, and
I was in the pride parade when he picketted that in 95.

>That's why the S.F. Examiner recently published an anti-gay ad.

Along with a free-speech editorial denouncing the ad.  It's similar to the
ACLU defending the KKKs right to hold their rallies and parades in Jewish
neighborhoods.  Don't forget Voltaire's comment on the right to voice
opinions.

>>You are doing more to stir the pot of homophobia than they are.
>
>Really?  Why don't you try suing me, then?  Homophobia's a terrible
>thing, and you should try to stop me, if you really believe this.

There are no grounds to sue you.  You're merely exercising your right to
free speech, as am I when I voice my disagreement with some of your views.
>That's why the S.F. Examiner recently
>published an anti-gay ad. I could go on, but I won't.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:34 GMT

On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:44:51 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>>Ridiculous and ignorant things to say. I am dedicated to gay
>>rights...I do not have time to take care of everyone else's.
>
>Yet you accuse those who do not actively support gay rights (even though
>they might, for all you know, be fighting other abuses of rights) of being
>anti-gay.

Nope. I've never done that. I've only kept within the topic of gay
rights, and challenged those who claim they are pro-gay, or who have
conformist attitudes, yet believe they are liberal.

>IMO, he's not as gay friendly as he makes himself out to be; DOMA and
>"don't ask, don't tell" being his two biggest follies.

Typical liberal het.

>>That's why, this last time Rev. Phelps came to town, he
>>was protected by S.F. cops. 
>
>He was not being protected for his views; he was being protected as a
>citizen.  Even assholes like Phelps are jerks. 

The point is: in previous visitations, he was not honored with a
police escort. This last time, suddenly he was. Must be the cops for
Christ.

>>That's why the S.F. Examiner recently published an anti-gay ad.
>
>Along with a free-speech editorial denouncing the ad.  

How nice of them. No doubt you bought into this sham, hook line and
sinker.

So when will we see ads from the KKK that Jews killed Jesus, and
should be converted? Or ads from the Aryan movement, saying blacks are
subhuman and should be put in cages? 

>It's similar to the
>ACLU defending the KKKs right to hold their rallies and parades in Jewish
>neighborhoods.  

Yes, but we usually have masses of people publicly denouncing these
KKK rallies...some even chasing them out of town. But we don't see any
groups of liberal hets publicly challenging homophobic preachers and
anti-gay church gatherings. Because they basically approve of it, in
their inaction and silence.

>Don't forget Voltaire's comment on the right to voice opinions.

Oh, sure...the S.F.  Examiner is so noble! Where are the ads
portraying same-sex couples? We don't even start with a level playing
field...yet when bigots buy ads, we're supposed to celebrate, because
it's an expression of free speech? Virtually every single
advertisement is heterocentric...and most of that objectifies women.
So before you begin to vigorously defend homophobic bigots...I suggest
you first fight to give gays fair representation in the press, and in
advertising. Then, once we have that, if ever, I'd be less concerned
about bigots buying big fat ads...basically declarations of war upon
homosexuals.



---
Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says:
"Throw the hetero over the fence some hay."
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass!
To find out why, choose either URL below:
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:47:33 -0700

In article <35f0ac6f.32899325@nntp.sj.bigger.net>,
ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>>>That's why, this last time Rev. Phelps came to town, he
>>>was protected by S.F. cops. 
>>
>>He was not being protected for his views; he was being protected as a
>>citizen.  Even assholes like Phelps are jerks. 
>
>The point is: in previous visitations, he was not honored with a
>police escort. This last time, suddenly he was. Must be the cops for
>Christ.

I personally know of only two times that he visited San Francisco; the two
that I mentioned (Randy Shilts's memorial service and the 1995 Pride
Parade).  He had police escorts both times.

Of course, if he hadn't had those escorts, some hot head would have tried
to attack him, and the hot head would have wound up being arrested and
tried--and the homophobes would have a PR victory.  The police escort
wasn't so much for his safety as for preserving peace.

BTW, why don't you accuse the airlines of aiding and abetting him by
selling him the tickets and flying him here--and the car rental company for
renting him the van to drive from SFO to the city?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:48:13 GMT

On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:47:33 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>BTW, why don't you accuse the airlines of aiding and abetting him by
>selling him the tickets and flying him here--and the car rental company for
>renting him the van to drive from SFO to the city?

I do! But without the backup of legal counsel, I am helpless. These
right-wing homophobes get tons of support and accommodation by our
silent hetero majority, who wear the sheep-wool guise of "liberal" and
"gay friendly". They are only too glad to escort him to San Francisco,
to bash us lowly faggots...from the airline company to the car rental,
to the hotel, and so on.

You would *not see them do this for the KKK...unless they did so in
clandestine fashion.



---
Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says:
"Throw the hetero over the fence some hay."
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass!
To find out why, choose either URL below:
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:52:24 -0700

In article <35f0ac6f.32899325@nntp.sj.bigger.net>,
ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>>It's similar to the
>>ACLU defending the KKKs right to hold their rallies and parades in Jewish
>>neighborhoods.  
>
>Yes, but we usually have masses of people publicly denouncing these
>KKK rallies...some even chasing them out of town. But we don't see any
>groups of liberal hets publicly challenging homophobic preachers and
>anti-gay church gatherings. Because they basically approve of it, in
>their inaction and silence.

I don't know where you have been, but I've seen them do that.

>>Don't forget Voltaire's comment on the right to voice opinions.
>
>Oh, sure...the S.F.  Examiner is so noble! Where are the ads
>portraying same-sex couples? 

They can print only those ads they're paid to print.  Where are all the
gays who are ponying up the money to buy those ads?

BTW, have you seen the auto ad from Hardford Insurance?  It shows two
identical pink cars next to each other, captioned that they sell insurance
to lesbian couples; then two blue cars, captioned that they sell insurance
to gay male couples, and then one car of each color, captioned that they
"even" sell insurance to het couples.  The point being that the rates are
lower for two cars owned by a couple than for two cars individually.

BTW, when will you turn your pen and wit against United Airlines?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:48:24 GMT

On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:52:24 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>BTW, when will you turn your pen and wit against United Airlines?

Considering how occupied I am now with the Pee Nuts debacle, I can't
possibly do any more. You should seek out others with the talent to do
so, and assist them in confronting United Airlines. We are a
community, aren't we? If you don't feel you have the talent or wit to
be the spokesperson or saboteur...then help by gathering all necessary
information for the chosen artist. I would also suggest, that all
people involved in such efforts should get equal recognition, instead
of credit just the most publicly-shown activists. It's only fair, and
it will help empower our community much better than it now stands.

There is not one gay hero I know of, that has not been made into a
position of recognition, without the knuckle-grinding work of many
unsung heroes.



---
Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says:
"Throw the hetero over the fence some hay."
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass!
To find out why, choose either URL below:
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:52:42 GMT

On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:48:24 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel
Krahlin) wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:52:24 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
>Steiner) wrote:
>
>>BTW, when will you turn your pen and wit against United Airlines?
>
>Considering how occupied I am now with the Pee Nuts debacle, I can't
>possibly do any more.


Besides identifying an exchange of dopey letters as a "debacle," what
have you done -- ?

I cannot imagine anyone's doing LESS.  Grandiosity seldom appears in a
more modest form.

ward


------------------------------------------------------
"You people are helping us do that, by proving that
discrimination against homosexuals does, in fact, 
happen.  It is ubiquitous and endemic, and you 
bigots have as many excuses for it, as eskimos 
have words for snow.
                         -Bruce Garrett  

------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Nicole Lasher 
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:37:57 +0200

 

Ward Stewart wrote:

> Besides identifying an exchange of dopey letters as a "debacle," what
> have you done -- ?
>
> I cannot imagine anyone's doing LESS.  Grandiosity seldom appears in a
> more modest form.
>
> ward

Dopey letters...Heheheh...
Let me tell you a story...

My great grandfather was a tenant farmer back in the day.  Much like it
was during slavery, they had to work every day of the week except Sunday. 
My great grandfather, however, was an "Old Testament" follower (due to
some aspects of my lineage that we can't really trace well due to the
human-trade) and believed that they should be allowed to have Saturdays
off too.
He talked to the other men and women he worked with, and they all rallied
behind him that night.  They determined that the very next morning, they
would march up to the Cap'm's front porch and demand that they be allowed
to have Shabbat free from work.
When they met the next morning, everyone was raring to go...They were all
standing behind my great grandaddy, and standing tall, marching towards
the house.  When they got there, my great grandaddy called out, and Cap'm
came to the door, and out to the front porch.
My great grandaddy proceeded to give his speech about religious freedom,
and the right to not have to work on Saturdays.  At the end, he said
something like "We demand to have Saturdays off!"
Cap'm looks around, and then looks at my great grandaddy, and says "Who is
'we'?"
There was nobody left standing there but my great grandaddy, Sam.
Cap'm says, "Sam, YOU can have Saturdays off," and then he went back into
his house....and so it was.

Ward, you can talk all you want to about dopey letters, but the fact
remains that rights don't just fall out of the sky.  They have to be
demanded, and fought for.   You can wait around for someone to hand you
your rights if you want to, but don't try to stop other people from doing
what they have to do...

~Niki
 


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:14:37 GMT

On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:37:57 +0200, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>
>Ward, you can talk all you want to about dopey letters, but the fact
>remains that rights don't just fall out of the sky.  They have to be
>demanded, and fought for.   You can wait around for someone to hand you
>your rights if you want to, but don't try to stop other people from doing
>what they have to do...
>
>~Niki

The imputation that I have been standing around and waiting for the
last fifty years or so is grossly offensive!  I have been a civil
libertarian all my life and first campaigned for Henry Wallace in
1948.  I am NOT "wait(ing) around for someone to hand you (me my) your
rights."  

What I would wish to stop is Zeke's irrational rap and pointless
excitements and howling on street-corners.  My arguments for civil
rights, for human rights and for EQUAL standing before the law for ALL
are rational and the legal and legislative changes being sought are
within the constitutional framework of our republic. 

When he labels Charles Schultz as "SCHITZ" he is gratuitously
offensive to a man and a cartoon character with NO RELEVANCE
WHATSOEVER to the actual campaign for human rights.  NONE!

When he calls for the idiotic establishment of "Thrace" he provides
the enemy, our common enemy, with proof that homosexuals are
irrational and are demanding stupid stuff.  

Do not suppose that this message is unheeded.-- He is, with this nutso
rap,  feeding into the delusions of Pat Robertson and the rest of the
enemy, OUR enemy.


ward



ward
-----------------------------------------------------
"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for 
women ... It is about a socialist, anti-family political
movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, 
kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy 
capitalism, and become Lesbians." 
                          -- Pat Robertson (1992)
-----------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:59:52 GMT

On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:14:37 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
wrote:

>The imputation that I have been standing around and waiting for the
>last fifty years or so is grossly offensive!  I have been a civil
>libertarian all my life and first campaigned for Henry Wallace in
>1948. 

Well, being a "libertarian" explains a lot of your right-wing
attitudes. While it is commendable that you serve gay rights in your
own way...it only smudges your record, to foolishly denigrate another
because it offends your assimilationist ideas. But if you must smudge,
then smudge on!

>What I would wish to stop is Zeke's irrational rap and pointless
>excitements and howling on street-corners.  

You would have me censored. I am not unaware of this. So much for your
belief in free speech.

>My arguments for civil
>rights, for human rights and for EQUAL standing before the law for ALL
>are rational and the legal and legislative changes being sought are
>within the constitutional framework of our republic. 

My claims are also within a constitutional framework. What you
consider a framework, is not from the constitution, but from
assimilationist attitudes...status quo heterocentric dogma.

>When he labels Charles Schultz as "SCHITZ" he is gratuitously
>offensive to a man and a cartoon character with NO RELEVANCE
>WHATSOEVER to the actual campaign for human rights.  NONE!

Not so at all...Schulz is quite relevant to the matter...as I have
already explained in "My Pee Nut Agenda", on this thread. For an
updated version, read:

	http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite/agenda.htm

You are making a mountain out of a molehill, by insisting my
converting "Schulz" to "Schitz" is terribly horrendous. You, my dear
bombastic libertarian, are an assimilationist, and by so being, you
would not *dare challenge one of our greatest symbols of status-quo
pap: Peanuts.

>When he calls for the idiotic establishment of "Thrace" he provides
>the enemy, our common enemy, with proof that homosexuals are
>irrational and are demanding stupid stuff.  

I made it very clear that this is a separatist *philosophy, and that
the dream of having our own gay nation--which I call "Athenia"--may
not fulfill itself for several centuries, if at all. And "Thracian" is
the term I propose as an alternate word for "gay male". For you to
take my original and mischievous ideas and tactics, and reinterpret
them as pro-homophobic, is plain and simple treason.

>Do not suppose that this message is unheeded.-- He is, with this nutso
>rap,  feeding into the delusions of Pat Robertson and the rest of the
>enemy, OUR enemy.

I would say that, with friends like you, who needs Pat Robertson?


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Frank Martinez Lester 
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:23:57 -0700

[[You are making a mountain out of a molehill, by insisting my
converting "Schulz" to "Schitz" is terribly horrendous. You, my dear
bombastic libertarian, are an assimilationist, and by so being, you
would not *dare challenge one of our greatest symbols of status-quo
pap: Peanuts.>>

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah.

[[I made it very clear that this is a separatist *philosophy, and that
the dream of having our own gay nation--which I call "Athenia"--may
not fulfill itself for several centuries, if at all. And "Thracian" is
the term I propose as an alternate word for "gay male". For you to
take my original and mischievous ideas and tactics, and reinterpret
them as pro-homophobic, is plain and simple treason.>>

Blah blah blah treason, blah blah blah homophobia, blah blah blah praise
the Almighty Krahlin for He is All Wisdom.




========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:46:37 GMT

On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:23:57 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester
 wrote:

>[[You are making a mountain out of a molehill, by insisting my
>converting "Schulz" to "Schitz" is terribly horrendous. 

NOT "horrendous," just stupid and tacky.  Having managed an offensive
construction of his name you are whining piteously because his
attorneys protest with a form letter.

Get over your silly self!


ward

     *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"The default condition for a citizen in our republic is that in any
harmless matter he is FREE to act as he will.  He is NOT to be 
restricted by prejudices and animosity amongst his neighbors -- 
if THEY wish to restrain him from his freedom, THEY must 
demonstrate  the public interest in so restricting him."
                                                  Uncle Ward
     *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:31:43 GMT

On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:46:37 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
wrote:

>NOT "horrendous," just stupid and tacky.  Having managed an offensive
>construction of his name you are whining piteously because his
>attorneys protest with a form letter.

Their letter of protest is illegal...for they impersonated an officer
of the law; in this case, a judge. They clearly accused me of
copyright infringement, not mentioning once that a parodied work is
not infringment...and for anyone to decide otherwise, they must drag
it into court, where the final conclusion is up to judge and/or jury.
The attorneys for Schulz just shot themselves in the foot.  Good
grief!



---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 03:41:53 GMT

On Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:31:43 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel
Krahlin) wrote:

>>Having managed an offensive
>>construction of his name you are whining piteously because his
>>attorneys protest with a form letter.

Who's "whining piteously?" I'm reveling! I'm celebrating! I'm
hollering down every street I walk: "Charles Schulz is suing me!". I
think it's hilairous...a dream come true. I will milk this opportuntiy
for all it's worth, to have a voice for gay liberation. Good grief!


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Joseph Canale 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:19:11 -0400

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:

> Who's "whining piteously?" I'm reveling! I'm celebrating! I'm
> hollering down every street I walk: "Charles Schulz is suing me!". I
> think it's hilairous...a dream come true. I will milk this opportuntiy
> for all it's worth, to have a voice for gay liberation. Good grief!
	
"Ezekiel Cretin, you blockhead"
	
 -Lucy


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:18:53 GMT

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:19:11 -0400, Joseph Canale 
wrote:

>> think it's hilairous...a dream come true. I will milk this opportuntiy
>> for all it's worth, to have a voice for gay liberation. Good grief!
>	
>"Ezekiel Cretin, you blockhead"
>	
> -Lucy

"Nobody seems to understand me"

-Charlie Brown



---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 07:10:28 GMT

On Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:31:43 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel
Krahlin) wrote:

>>Having managed an offensive
>>construction of his name you are whining piteously because his
>>attorneys protest with a form letter.

THE QUESTIONABLE LEGALITY OF COUNSEL'S LETTER

Ezekiel J. Krahlin, 9/8/98 

For any company to outright declare an artist's parody to be in
violaton of another's work, prior to any court decision agreeing to
such, is patently illegal. The ultimate decision of whether or not a
work is parody, must be decided in court...if any potential plaintiff
cares to challenge the piece. Schulz's lawyer's letter was an
infringement on my person, and a slanderous accusation. Letter did not
say "We believe your work may be an infringement of our clients' art."
If they did, then they would be legal. Instead, they claimed
absolutely that my work is a copyright and/or trademark violation.

Their letter was entitled "Unauthorized use of PEANUTS Characters",
and later said "...all of which constitutes a clear violation of these
rights." Had they phrased it like: "Questionable use of PEANUTS
Characters", and "...all of which constitutes a possible violation of
these rights"...then they would be behaving as responsible attorneys,
instead of asserting authority that only belongs to a judge and jury.
(These are but two examples among several in the letter, in which they
impersonate a judge.)

As I understand copyright law, when the piece in question is a parody
whose style is to mimic another author's work...then there is no
violation of any copyright/tradmark. If the artist being parodied
cares to challenge this, then he must take it to court...for the final
arbiter of whether or not a work is really parody, must be the court.
The firm of Baker & Hostetler is acting as sole judge and jury...and
therefore is impersonating an officer of the law: in this case, a
judge. This is definitely against the law, and an abuse of authority
which should hold no place in a democracy.

So not only am I defending my free speech to parody another's
work...but I declare the lawyer's letter itself an offense against the
court and the jury process. An offense that is liable by law, and
potentially damaging to their clients.



---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:09:52 GMT

On Wed, 09 Sep 1998 07:10:28 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel
Krahlin) wrote:

>
>[...]
>The firm of Baker & Hostetler is acting as sole judge and jury...and
>therefore is impersonating an officer of the law: in this case, a
>judge. This is definitely against the law, and an abuse of authority
>which should hold no place in a democracy.
>
>So not only am I defending my free speech to parody another's
>work...but I declare the lawyer's letter itself an offense against the
>court and the jury process. An offense that is liable by law, and
>potentially damaging to their clients.
>

Zeke, old boy, the shysters probably won't pursue it when they figure
out that you've got little of value for them to take.  But if they do
then you're about to get an education in the Amerikan legal system
that will be good for about a gazillion rants from you in this
newsgroup.  Unless they take your computer.

Scruffy


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: "L. Michael Roberts" 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:53:42 -0400

Scruffy van Piebles wrote:



> But if they do
> then you're about to get an education in the Amerikan legal system
> that will be good for about a gazillion rants from you in this
> newsgroup.  Unless they take your computer.

	One can only hope!!!!

+====================   L. Michael Roberts   ======================+
     This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Burlington, Ont, Canada To reply, remove 'SpamSux' from my E-ddress
       "Life is a sexualy transmitted, terminal, condition"
+==================================================================+

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:19:09 GMT

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:53:42 -0400, "L. Michael Roberts"
 wrote:

>>Unless they take your computer.
>
>	One can only hope!!!!

Mark these words: in the near future you will fall all over yourself
to see to it I have the most state-of-the-art PC possible, in order to
support my activism.


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: look@my.sig4address (Magenta)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:12:12 GMT

In [[35f8c4f8.9231294@nntp.sj.bigger.net>> ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com
(Ezekiel Krahlin) doth speak:

>On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:53:42 -0400, "L. Michael Roberts"
> wrote:
>
>>>Unless they take your computer.
>>
>>	One can only hope!!!!
>
>Mark these words: in the near future you will fall all over yourself
>to see to it I have the most state-of-the-art PC possible, in order to
>support my activism.

Zeke, take your lithium.


-- 
+----- Peace & Love, ----+------- Magenta77 (at) AOL (dot) com ------+
|  /| /| _  _  _  _-|-_  |"There are more things in heaven and earth,|
| / |/ |(_|(_|(/_| )|(_| |...Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." |
|_________  _/ __________|_________________--[Hamlet Act I: Scene V]_|

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:06:12 GMT

On Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:12:12 GMT, look@my.sig4address (Magenta) wrote:

>Zeke, take your lithium.

Why don't you learn not to make slurs on my disability? Or is it
impossible for you to learn where to draw the line? I'm afraid, due to
your consistantly abusive tongue, it remains the latter.



---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: look@my.sig4address (Magenta)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 02:06:02 GMT

In [[35faf025.7640885@nntp.sj.bigger.net>> ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com
(Ezekiel Krahlin) doth speak:

>On Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:12:12 GMT, look@my.sig4address (Magenta) wrote:
>
>>Zeke, take your lithium.
>
>Why don't you learn not to make slurs on my disability? Or is it
>impossible for you to learn where to draw the line? I'm afraid, due to
>your consistantly abusive tongue, it remains the latter.

It is not a slur Zeke, it is a recommendation.
Your posts reveal your disability, and reveal that your disability is
not in check. Your paranoia and delusions of grandeur stick out like
sore thumbs. I will not "draw the line" at coddling you and accepting
that you are spiraling downhill. You NEED medication Zeke. Your
disorder is not something that has to destroy your life. It can be
managed with medication, and you can live a healthy, happy life.

And I say this to you in spite of your constant abusiveness toward me
and others here, I say this out of concern for your well-being. This
is NOT something you can deal with on your own, this is NOT a
challenge put before you by God. It is a disorder, and you need
professional help with that disorder.


-- 
+----- Peace & Love, ----+------- Magenta77 (at) AOL (dot) com ------+
|  /| /| _  _  _  _-|-_  |"There are more things in heaven and earth,|
| / |/ |(_|(_|(/_| )|(_| |...Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." |
|_________  _/ __________|_________________--[Hamlet Act I: Scene V]_|

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:57:33 GMT

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 02:06:02 GMT, look@my.sig4address (Magenta) wrote:

>It is not a slur Zeke, it is a recommendation.
>Your posts reveal your disability, and reveal that your disability is
>not in check. 

Thank God, thank God, thank God you are *not a therapist. Your
analysis is not only vulgar, it's an insult to any human.

> I will not "draw the line" at coddling you and accepting
>that you are spiraling downhill. 

You wish I were spiralling downhill! Here you go again, projecting
negative scenarios in hopes of ensnaring me into your little games of
black magic and spells.

>You NEED medication Zeke. 

The only medications I need are friendship and good coffee...they
always seem to do the trick.

>Your disorder is not something that has to destroy your life. It can be
>managed with medication, and you can live a healthy, happy life.

Whatever you are talking about, is not a disorder. I already live a
healthy, happy life...and it's getting better with each and every day.

>And I say this to you in spite of your constant abusiveness toward me
>and others here, I say this out of concern for your well-being. 

Nonsense. I am not constantly abusive to you, nor have I ever been.
You have no concern about me, for you have no concern for anyone but
your own selfish desires. The only time I call someone an unfriendly
term, is after I have been rudely provoked by that person at least
several times. Thus, I nickname you "Placenta", Trent Petrasek "Trench
mouth", and Ward Stewart "Wart".

You should go back and study my messages throughout my participation
in Usenet. I never use any derogatory terms that express a bigoted
attitude against any oppressed minority. This includes the mentally
disabled, as well as physically disabled, gays, women, blacks,
children, and so on. 

Yet you, vile Placenta, have made numerous slurs about my own
"disability"...while not really knowing anything about me. Here is one
of your messages to me, filled with prejudiced remarks:

---begin message

From: look@my.sig4address (Magenta)
Subject: Re: Of the political will to be and remain gay
Date: 16 Aug 1998 04:14:21 GMT

This idiot who spends his life bitching and moaning about how awful
this country is and calling it "Amerika" is living off welfare!?! What
a fucking jackass....

You milk us of all our hard-earned money. The LEAST you could do is be
thankful to this country that you get it....

most of us are not totally dependant, and bitch and moan about the
country that feeds you for doing nothing but bitching and moaning....

This gives us a lot of insight about your whole mindset- you are an
entirely dependant individual. You do not think or act on your own,
you do not stand up for yourself, so you just sit and bitch and moan,
and curl up into a little ball hoping for some rainbow paradise
because you just can't face the real world....

I consider you a selfish bitch who is living off the government while
bitching about how awful the government is.

---end message

Yet, now you tell me *I need help. No, you vulgar worm...you are the
one that needs help. Knowing I am mentally disabled, you have
nonetheless persisted with villifying me, using my disability as your
whip. This reflects an extremely immature, and vicious personality.
Your terrible attitude against the disabled, could cause the death of
someone who cannot fight your psychological weapons...thus, they
commit suicide. Put enough of your kind together, and you have a mass
attack and suffocation on a psychic level, against these innocent, and
less fortunate souls. Your crime, your sin, is a great one.

Your slurs against my disability, are equivalent to slurs against
other minorities...like calling a woman a "cunt", a physically
disabled person a "gimp", a gay a "faggot", and a Jew a "kyke". Now,
knowing you have a deep skin color, what would you think if I kept
calling you "nigger"? Yes, I don't think that would be either
wholesome or decent of me. So I urge you to put away your foolish
bigotry...before it destroys what soul remains in your heart! I am
telling this for your sake, not mine. 

Your continued slurs against me, stigmatizing me by stereotypically
hateful remarks about my mental condition...are a serious offense
against the purpose for our creator giving us a voice. You can hate me
as much as you want, and make up crude names...but please, for your
own sake, show some political correctness and ethical responsibility
in your arguments!  You will only be a better person for that.

I am astounded at how many gays, like yourself, insist on perpetrating
some of the most vile attitudes against other minorities, including
those within our own gay minority! As a "community", we are every bit
as racist, and bigoted against the handicapped, the poor, and the
disabled. How on earth could we ever expect to rise above the
religious reich and win our  own civil rights...if we are basically
indistinguishable from our own homophobic enemies, in the arena of
compassion (actually, the lack thereof)?

>This is NOT something you can deal with on your own, this is NOT a
>challenge put before you by God. It is a disorder, and you need
>professional help with that disorder.

I *have professional help, you poor, lackluster idiot...and I've had
this help since 1974! And you know what every psychiatrist has
concluded? That I have a great gift, and it is only their duty to
support me through the process of spiritual growing pains, until I am
able to support myself by the mature use of these gifts. Their support
involves protecting me from being enmeshed in mundane job obligations
that could destroy my growing abilities. They are like wild horses
that I must tame...and once tamed, use these gifts to benefit others.
And it looks like I am about to make that breakthrough...for which I
predict will result in earning my own living, by being a speaker and
healer of things spiritual and ethical.

Just because my path is different from the cookie-cutter mold of the
status quo...does not make me a leech, a welfare queen, a bum, or any
other vile thing you and some others have called me. I urgently
implore you to put down your weapons of spiritual rape, before your
own conscience turns them upon yourself!



---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:12:17 GMT

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:09:52 GMT, scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy
van Piebles) wrote:

>Zeke, old boy, the shysters probably won't pursue it when they figure
>out that you've got little of value for them to take.  But if they do
>then you're about to get an education in the Amerikan legal system
>that will be good for about a gazillion rants from you in this
>newsgroup.  Unless they take your computer.

Nonsense. Their bringing me to court will only favor more media
attention, and garner me recognition as a courageous fighter for gay
rights...even if I lose the specific court case. There is no way they
can take my computer, or anything else from me...for I am not in
violation of any law...and all my witnesses know I have never intended
any illegal actions, ever.

Besides, I'm due for a new computer, as this one's getting too old to
keep up. So they can have it.


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 08:22:46 GMT

On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:46:37 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
wrote:

>NOT "horrendous," just stupid and tacky.  Having managed an offensive
>construction of his name you are whining piteously because his
>attorneys protest with a form letter.

	Zeke Prays for a Good Lawyer
	http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite/prays.htm


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:28:15 GMT

On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:37:57 +0200, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>There was nobody left standing there but my great grandaddy, Sam.
>Cap'm says, "Sam, YOU can have Saturdays off," and then he went back into
>his house....and so it was.

What a great story, Niki! Reminds me of when I tried to start a
tenants' union in a low-rent hotel in which I lived, some years back.
The managers (the notorious Patels), would steal from our rooms, deny
us hot water in the winter, for showers, and so on.

Many residents loved my proposal...but when push came to shove, they
all got too scared to speak out. In fact, they turned on me, hollering
"Crook! Cheater! Bum" down the hallways as I passed. Well, I let the
Patels take me to court, where I spoke my piece. I won the right to
stay there as long as I wanted, under conditions that the manager do
*not enter my room and more, and do *not harass me in any way. I even
got my own lock put on, to which they did not have the key. Also, the
Patel Syndicate was exposed in the media, as the result of my stand.

>Ward, you can talk all you want to about dopey letters, but the fact
>remains that rights don't just fall out of the sky.  

I have my suspicions it was a coconut that fell out of the sky, that
now gives Wart his present inspirations.


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Frank Martinez Lester 
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:21:29 -0700

[[Ward, you can talk all you want to about dopey letters, but the fact
remains that rights don't just fall out of the sky.  They have to be
demanded, and fought for.   You can wait around for someone to hand you
your rights if you want to, but don't try to stop other people from doing
what they have to do...>>

This discussion has gotten so convoluted that it is no longer clear what
"rights" we are talking about.

What "rights"?




========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:46:33 GMT

On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:21:29 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester
 wrote:

>[[Ward, you can talk all you want to about dopey letters, but the fact
>remains that rights don't just fall out of the sky.  They have to be
>demanded, and fought for.   You can wait around for someone to hand you
>your rights if you want to, but don't try to stop other people from doing
>what they have to do...>>
>
>This discussion has gotten so convoluted that it is no longer clear what
>"rights" we are talking about.
>
>What "rights"?
>
>


It's clear enough Frank -- Zeke is disapproving because I am not as
strident, not as rackety, as he and therefore instead of working for
the recognition of  civil rights for Gays and Lesbians I have been
wasting my time playing bridge.  Waiting passively for my human rights
to "fall out of the sky."  He is clearly unaware of what is happening
in the real world and particularly here in Hawaii where we have raised
many tens of thousand dollars and financed a case which has brought us
to the verge of victory in the matter of same-gender marriage.

 He is jerking himself off over "Peenuts" and, of all things,
"Thrace." 

Zeke is a fool on his good days and an idiot the rest of the time -- 

ward


     *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"The default condition for a citizen in our republic is that in any
harmless matter he is FREE to act as he will.  He is NOT to be 
restricted by prejudices and animosity amongst his neighbors -- 
if THEY wish to restrain him from his freedom, THEY must 
demonstrate  the public interest in so restricting him."
                                                  Uncle Ward
     *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Frank Martinez Lester 
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:09:47 -0700

[[He is clearly unaware of what is happening
in the real world and particularly here in Hawaii where we have raised
many tens of thousand dollars and financed a case which has brought us
to the verge of victory in the matter of same-gender marriage.>>

Ward, that kind of victory is probably irrelevant to Mr Krahlin.  It is too
assimilationist, too mimicking of breeder privilege.  Same-sex marriage is
meaningless when you can spend your days attacking Charles Schulz.






========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 23:02:47 GMT

On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:52:24 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>BTW, when will you turn your pen and wit against United Airlines?

And as for my Pee Nuts issue: any help on this matter, is greatly
appreciate...for my victory is a victory for gay rights. Even if I
lose the court case, the fact that I was able to voice my point about
no gay presence in mainstream comics...is the real victory; for it
will raise the Amerikan public's consciousness. And the more media
attention this gets, the more the consciousness is raised.

What I need help with now, is to cite references to other examples of
comic strip parodies. Mike Silverman has already given me one, with
this "Dysfunctional Family Circus" cite. So thanks again, Mike!

So if anyone cares to, please help me find other proof on web
sites...and if not there, then in any traditional publications:
underground comics, literary critque, and the like. In this case, send
me the name of the publication, and all other pertinent information
(copyright year, pages of the reference, etc.) so I can locate a copy
myself, and provide the proof that would be demanded in a court
hearing.

In fact, I am considering getting a mailbox service, in the event
anyone cares to actually mail me photocopies of any paper sources they
find. 

I will also keep the names of all people assisting me on this...so
that all parties involved will get full recognition for their efforts
"behind the scenes". We all do this together, or we don't do it at
all...for I surely cannot win my case on my wits alone. I will even
give credit for those who play my devil's advocates (either knowingly
or unknowingly)...for it is they who sharpen my skills.


---
Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says:
"Throw the hetero over the fence some hay."
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass!
To find out why, choose either URL below:
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:56:10 -0700

In article <35f1c2c9.7892890@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com
wrote:

>What I need help with now, is to cite references to other examples of
>comic strip parodies.

Look at almost any copy of _MAD_ magazine.  It's rife with comic-strip
parodies.  They've even done Peanuts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:03:25 GMT

On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:56:10 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>Look at almost any copy of _MAD_ magazine.  It's rife with comic-strip
>parodies.  They've even done Peanuts.

I will do that, Michelle. Only I don't have access to a collection of
Mad magazines, nor do I think libraries keep them. I will, however,
see what I can do about this...perhaps e-mail them.


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 15:59:55 -0700

In article <35f24d56.12269552@nntp.sj.bigger.net>,
ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:56:10 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
>Steiner) wrote:
>
>>Look at almost any copy of _MAD_ magazine.  It's rife with comic-strip
>>parodies.  They've even done Peanuts.
>
>I will do that, Michelle. Only I don't have access to a collection of
>Mad magazines, nor do I think libraries keep them. I will, however,
>see what I can do about this...perhaps e-mail them.

Many libraries do have them.  Don't forget the used-book and magazine stores.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 08:33:22 GMT

On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 15:59:55 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>>I will do that, Michelle. Only I don't have access to a collection of
>>Mad magazines, nor do I think libraries keep them. I will, however,
>>see what I can do about this...perhaps e-mail them.
>
>Many libraries do have them.  Don't forget the used-book and magazine stores.

They have a web site...but no e-mail. They do have a fax number, so I
will contact them tomorrow, and see what help they might care to
provide. I will also look for Mad as you suggested, in used book
stores. Thanks again, Michelle.


---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass
for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:40:34 GMT

michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes:

>In article <35f24d56.12269552@nntp.sj.bigger.net>,
>ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>>On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:56:10 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
>>Steiner) wrote:
>>
>>>Look at almost any copy of _MAD_ magazine.  It's rife with comic-strip
>>>parodies.  They've even done Peanuts.
>>
>>I will do that, Michelle. Only I don't have access to a collection of
>>Mad magazines, nor do I think libraries keep them. I will, however,
>>see what I can do about this...perhaps e-mail them.

>Many libraries do have them.  Don't forget the used-book and magazine stores.


Mad Magazine once did a parody involving both Superman and Captain Marvel.
The Superman character was called "Superduperman." At one point he said:
"Ka-pwing! right into the ladies room with my x-ray vision!" The Captain
Marvel character was called: "Captain Marbles." No relation to Marla
Maples. I just had to throw that in. I'm a compulsive comedian.

Anyway, Captain Marbles decided to become an arch-criminal. He said he was
tired of knocking himself out for justice. So he gets into a fistfight
with Superduperman. Superduperman ducks, and the punch that Captain
Marbles intended for Superduperman, lands on his own chin. In that way
Captain Marbles literally knocked himself out.


john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry)

Grand Duke of Yugoslobia
Duke of Vulgaria
Grand Muff-Diver of Jerusalem
Elector of Homophobia
& Baron of Gray Matter


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 23:11:42 GMT

On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:52:24 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>BTW, when will you turn your pen and wit against United Airlines?

I would also appreciate another little project to help us win the Pee
Nuts case. And that is:

When you write letters to editors encouraging newspapers to include a
gay daily and Sunday comic strip...also mention my Pee Nuts web pages:

http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm

(Each page mirrors the other.) This can garner us more attention.

I also suggest contacting...by e-mail, snail mail, or voice
phone...gay organizations and news services, regarding the Pee Nuts
copyright issue. This will also stir up the pot.

I also seek suggestions for perfecting my legal defense, as it is
portrayed as prose in "My Pee Nut Agenda"...which you'll find, or
course, on my Pee Nuts pages.

Thank you, one and all...all messiahs of the good fight...the good,
gay fight!



---
Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says:
"Throw the hetero over the fence some hay."
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass!
To find out why, choose either URL below:
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:26:16 GMT

On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:44:51 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>>That's why the S.F. Examiner recently published an anti-gay ad.
>
>Along with a free-speech editorial denouncing the ad.  

Well, I'm not the only one aware of how bad things have gotten for
gays...including our "gay mecca". Yet simplistic attitudes like yours
that paint an idyllic gay world through rose-colored glasses, have
been denying my observations. Here is an article affirming my
conclusions:

San Francisco Frontiers
August 26, 1998 Vol. 17, Iss. 9

---begin article at 
http://www.frontiersweb.com/sfcurrent/Pages/news1.html


THE WAR AT HOME:

Study Finds Anti-Gay OK for Kids by the Bay

Anti-gay violence is more pervasive and socially acceptable than may
be generally thought--even in the Bay Area. In a study of 500 young
men and women in the Bay Area, half the young men admitted to
physically assaulting, threatening or verbally abusing gay people.
That study, presented on Aug. 16 at the American Psychological
Association convention in San Francisco by University of Washington
psychologist Karen Franklin, also found 10 percent of the whole group
had threatened or committed violence against gay people, and 24
percent reported engaging in anti-gay name calling.

"The perpetration rates are pretty alarming," Dr. Franklin said. "It
was interesting [considering] this area is supposed to be the gay
capital of the world and the most progressive in terms of social
policies." Franklin also noted that many of those doing the assaulting
and name-calling did not consider themselves virulent homophobes. "It
was interesting to see how little animosity some of them had toward
gay people. Some were just pulled along by the group and later on they
regretted what they did," she said.

It should come as no surprise in a society where homophobia is still
acceptable that one of Franklin's primary conclusions was that
perpetrators feel they are doing the right thing: "Young people, at
least the ones who commit these acts, seem to believe that what they
are doing is so socially condoned that there will be no repercussions.
They think that if they do anti-gay name-calling, no one will act.
[They feel] if they engage in assaults, they have justifications."

Franklin's study is one of the first ever to look at how the
perpetrators of anti-gay violence perceive their actions, as opposed
to how their victims perceive the assaults. After conducting dozens of
interviews and subjecting those interviews to a statistical factor
analysis that pulled out patterns of similar answers, Franklin said,
"One of the important findings of my research is there is no single
motivation of hate crimes. We should not assume they are driven by
hate."

Franklin's study identified four primary motivations of anti-gay
attacks: self-defense, ideology, thrill-seeking and peer dynamics. The
self-defense assailants are driven by the idea that all queers are
sexual predators and therefore any contact made by someone perceived
to be homosexual is, by definition, an aggressive come-on and has to
be met with a violent response.

The ideology attackers, on the other hand, believe they are doing
society a favor by beating us up. "That one is the closest to the
stereotype of hatred," Franklin said. "It really is not hatred, but it
is an idea by these assailants that they are enforcing social norms,
that they are do-gooders protecting society. It is not so much
homosexuality that they object to as it is visible challenges to
gender norms."

The last two categories are basically the dreaded bored teenagers who
do it either for kicks or to prove they are straight to their
adolescent buddies. These are the kids most likely to express remorse
or downplay the level of violence.

Franklin offers two recommendations: Proactive anti-discrimination
education should be started very early in schools in an attempt to
break societal homophobia, and enhanced sentences for hate crimes
should be dropped because they are akin to bolting the door after the
horse is gone. Education is imperative, she said, because as long as
"the courts are saying gay people are second-class citizens, that
gives young people the message it is OK to target them."

--Tim Kingston

---end of article


---
Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says:
"Throw the hetero over the fence some hay."
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass!
To find out why, choose either URL below:
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Nicole Lasher 
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:03:12 +0300

 

Michelle Steiner wrote:

> He has extended his justifiable hatred of homophobes to everyone who is not
> on the front lines fighting homophobia.  That is not only not justifiable,
> it is not rational.
>
> --Michelle

Not so...Once again, there is a difference between hate and prejudice, as well as
a difference between an outright insult, and a prod.
Ezekiel prods everyone equally.  I'm bisexual, and Ezekiel also has prods for
bisexuals...but does that mean that Ezekiel hates me?  No.  He just wants to let
me, and people like me know up front that bisexual politics sucks, and to filter
out bisexuals who are just trying to be kinky, but don't have any real fire for
activism.
Do I feel alienated by Ezekiel?  Not in the least.  I know the meaning behind his
words because I don't focus on one sentence or paragraph that I disagree with, and
go on a rampage about it.  I read the whole thing, take what I need for my
personal growth, and don't worry much about the rest..the same as I do with anyone
else.
If I have a bone to pick with him, I pick it by asking questions instead of
insulting him.  That's how you learn what a person's perspective is, if you're
unclear about the meaning...You ask.
Ezekiel is a catalyst...meaning he gets people moving...gets them talking, which
is, despite those who hate his gutts, exactly what he has done.
I don't see him as a hate-monger...as jaded as I am, I don't see him that way.
So, he's not always totally "rational"...Am I?  Are you?
Can you say, with 100% certainty, that you are totally rational about everything?

~Niki


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 10:30:15 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:03:12 +0300, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>Not so...Once again, there is a difference between hate and prejudice, as well as
>a difference between an outright insult, and a prod.

I pride myself in maintaining a sharp pitchfork.

>Ezekiel prods everyone equally.  

I'm an equal opportunity prodder. I spare no one, not even the angels
who regularly visit and teach me, and insist this isn't borderline
schizophrenia, but borderline grace and demi-conditional love of
whirligig cosmic invigoration of dalmation proportions.

>I'm bisexual, and Ezekiel also has prods for bisexuals...

I certainly do. I have prod many an handsome bisexual in my time.

>but does that mean that Ezekiel hates me?  No.  

You are no doubt referring to my statement about you, in another
thread, another time: "If more bisexuals were as aggressively
supportive of gay rights as you are, I wouldn't be so down on their
politics. But when they start espousing crackpot ideas like
'heterophobia' and 'biphobia', I cannot but lose my respect."...or
something in those words.

>He just wants to let me, and people like me know up front that 
>bisexual politics sucks, and to filter out bisexuals who are just 
>trying to be kinky, but don't have any real fire for activism.

Exactamento, my pimento! I do the same for gays, as well as straights.
I am more interested in meeting progressive minds, than dull and
narrow ones. Since I have become so much more aggressive over the gay
issue in the last year or so...I have acquired some straight friends
who are totally supportive of my approach. In fact, they're constantly
talking about me to their other friends.

>Do I feel alienated by Ezekiel?  Not in the least.  

It is always a great honor and pleasure when I meet another kindred
spirit via the Internet...and the club is growing! Whoa, we ain't seen
nothin' yet!  Wait'll the Schulz hits the fan!

>Ezekiel is a catalyst...meaning he gets people moving...gets them talking, which
>is, despite those who hate his gutts, exactly what he has done.

Thank you for acknowledging one of my talents. I am very honored to
have this gift. And to be fair to those that obstruct me: without you,
I wouldn't have the chance to be tested, and to cut my teeth, in
preparation for the confronations I am soon to have with truly
dangerous types. And I'm doing it for you just because you're
gay...you don't need to be my friend.

In fact, thanks to all you who have been attacking me, I have pretty
much composed all the statements in favor of my copyright case, should
I have to go into court. All I need do now, is copy my important lines
into a single file, then embellish it a bit...and voila, I have all
the important points in my defense, ready to go!

And I *am a catalyst, to get the blood stirring. I offer, at least,
diversionary entertainment for the troops, to keep them laughing...as
well as pondering philosophical issues...sometimes just for the
beautry of philosophy itself.

I am also providing everyone who is receptive, with psychological
tools and group tactics to forward our movement. I have already
proposed the following group activities that we can share:  sending a
letter to the editor of major newspapers in your region, about
including a gay comic strip...creating your own gay parody of a Sunday
comic, to display on my controversial web site...finding some homeless
or disenfranchised gay man or woman, and helping me to help him or
her, have his/her very own free web page, where s/he can tell his/her
story to the world.

You gossip queens can't leave me alone, now that I've said some very
personal things about myself (though they are not necessarily true).
But one way or another, with honey or adhesive, you can't pull
yourself away. So why don't we just stoke up the campfire, and gather
around in this wonderful, starry cybernight...and weave further ideas,
tales, and wisecracks, that will be the formative works to start the
creation of "A Final Testament for the End Time: the First Bible by
and for Gays, and Gays Alone."

	The Birth Of The Final Testament
	http://www.pugzine.com/pug2/found2.html

Ta-da!


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
Either URL below, will keep you updated with the 
"Peenuts" copyright issue:

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Frank Martinez Lester 
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:33:56 -0700

[[I know the meaning behind his
words because I don't focus on one sentence or paragraph that I disagree with, and
go on a rampage about it.  I read the whole thing, take what I need for my
personal growth, and don't worry much about the rest..the same as I do with anyone
else.>>

I did read the whole thing.  The whole thing sucks.  There is nothing of value to
"take" from it.

[[If I have a bone to pick with him, I pick it by asking questions instead of
insulting him.  That's how you learn what a person's perspective is, if you're
unclear about the meaning...You ask.>>

I did ask questions.  He replied to my questions by calling me a "traitor" & an
imbecile.  So: he is doing exactly the opposite of the advice you are giving.  Why
should I take the time to "learn the perspective" of someone who clearly does not care
about anyone else's but his own?

[[Can you say, with 100% certainty, that you are totally rational about everything?>>

Of course not, but I try, which is more than Mr Krahlin can say.




========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:55:52 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:33:56 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester
 wrote:

>Of course not, but I try, which is more than Mr Krahlin can say.

Harder, harder!



---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
Either URL below, will keep you updated with the 
"Peenuts" copyright issue:

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:27:14 -0700

In article <35EE4D40.7AF7E844@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>So, he's not always totally "rational"...Am I?  Are you?
>Can you say, with 100% certainty, that you are totally rational about
everything?

No.  I never claimed to be.  I don't even strive for it.  I am not Spock.

I actually thought that his Beetle Baily and Cathy parodies were funny; I'm
responding to his rhetoric in this thread.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 01:58:20 GMT

On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 15:26:37 +0300, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>
>This is where your opinion and mine differ, and probably why you have a
>problem relating to Ezekiel.  Since it's my job, or my future job, to mediate
>such situations, I guess I'll start practicing now....So here goes. [...]
>

It has been my experience that mediators are able to support both
sides of a disagreement, to see both sides of the coin.  You've argued
Zeke's side, Niki, now let's see you argue the opposing view.

Practice makes perfect!

Scruffy


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Frank Martinez Lester 
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 19:19:23 -0700

[[It has been my experience that mediators are able to support both
sides of a disagreement, to see both sides of the coin.  You've argued
Zeke's side, Niki, now let's see you argue the opposing view.>>

Well said, Scruffy!





========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: "robbie_c" 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:58:50 -0400

Scruffy van Piebles wrote in message
<35edd71c.2976429@news.supernews.com>...

>You've argued Zeke's side, Niki, now let's see you argue the >opposing
view.
>
>Practice makes perfect!

Humpf. Niki is a mediator like KingSix is a mediator!
--
----
Robbie---------------------(bruce_c)         bdcpharm@epic.prodigy.net
http://members.wbs.net/homepages/n/y/c/nycrobbie.html
[Legitimate e-mailers: remove 'epic' from my address]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From childhood's hour I have not been
As others were---I have not seen
As others saw---I could not bring
My passions from a common spring.

------Edgar Allan Poe   "Alone"




========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Nicole Lasher 
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:20:41 +0300

::sigh::  Read the post one more time.
I was not taking sides.  I was addressing the point of disagreement, which was the
difference in perception of hate and prejudice.
Mediation isn't a one-shot deal.

~Niki
 

Scruffy van Piebles wrote:

> On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 15:26:37 +0300, Nicole Lasher
>  wrote:
>
> >
> >This is where your opinion and mine differ, and probably why you have a
> >problem relating to Ezekiel.  Since it's my job, or my future job, to mediate
> >such situations, I guess I'll start practicing now....So here goes. [...]
> >
>
> It has been my experience that mediators are able to support both
> sides of a disagreement, to see both sides of the coin.  You've argued
> Zeke's side, Niki, now let's see you argue the opposing view.
>
> Practice makes perfect!
>
> Scruffy


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 01:40:22 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:20:41 +0300, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>::sigh::  Read the post one more time.
>I was not taking sides.  I was addressing the point of disagreement, which was the
>difference in perception of hate and prejudice.
>Mediation isn't a one-shot deal.
>

Nonetheless, you managed to neatly address Zeke's point in the
disagreement without actually addressing the other perception.  As you
say, mediation is not a one-shot deal (unless you're Judge Judy), so
how about explaining the different perceptions in a way that would
bring us all--including Zeke--closer together.

Scruffy


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:58:19 GMT

On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 01:40:22 GMT, scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy
van Piebles) wrote:

>how about explaining the different perceptions in a way that would
>bring us all--including Zeke--closer together.

I'm not interested in being brought closer together with many of the
denizens in this group.  That would go against my better judgment.


---
Right-wing queers are all it takes
To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes.
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Either URL below, will keep you updated 
with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue:
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 00:15:52 GMT

On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:58:19 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel
Krahlin) wrote:

>On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 01:40:22 GMT, scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy
>van Piebles) wrote:
>
>>how about explaining the different perceptions in a way that would
>>bring us all--including Zeke--closer together.
>
>I'm not interested in being brought closer together with many of the
>denizens in this group.  That would go against my better judgment.
>

Judgement?  Oh, I see; you're a parody of yourself.

Scruffy


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:37 GMT

On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 00:15:52 GMT, scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy
van Piebles) wrote:

>>I'm not interested in being brought closer together with many of the
>>denizens in this group.  That would go against my better judgment.
>>
>
>Judgement?  Oh, I see; you're a parody of yourself.

This thread's getting tired fast. I think I'll just deal with the Pee
Nuts copyright issue...far more intriguing and fun.


---
Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says:
"Throw the hetero over the fence some hay."
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass!
To find out why, choose either URL below:
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 06:27:24 GMT

On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 00:15:52 GMT, scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy
van Piebles) wrote:

>On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:58:19 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel
>Krahlin) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 01:40:22 GMT, scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy
>>van Piebles) wrote:
>>
>>>how about explaining the different perceptions in a way that would
>>>bring us all--including Zeke--closer together.
>>
>>I'm not interested in being brought closer together with many of the
>>denizens in this group.  That would go against my better judgment.
>>
>
>Judgement?  Oh, I see; you're a parody of yourself.
>
>Scruffy

Aloha Scruffy -- 

I fear that you are confusing "parody" with "burlesque."

ward
     *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"The default condition for a citizen in our republic is that in any
harmless matter he is FREE to act as he will.  He is NOT to be 
restricted by prejudices and animosity amongst his neighbors -- 
if THEY wish to restrain him from his freedom, THEY must 
demonstrate  the public interest in so restricting him."
                                                  Uncle Ward
     *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 08:50:38 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 01:58:20 GMT, scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy
van Piebles) wrote:

>It has been my experience that mediators are able to support both
>sides of a disagreement, to see both sides of the coin.  You've argued
>Zeke's side, Niki, now let's see you argue the opposing view.

Let's see you put your money where your mouth is: Argue *my side.

>Practice makes perfect!

Then start practicing.


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
Either URL below, will keep you updated with the 
"Peenuts" copyright issue:

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: look@my.sig4address (Magenta)
Date: 3 Sep 1998 05:37:41 GMT

In [[35ED397D.F7DDD158@netvision.net.il>> Nicole Lasher
 doth speak:
>kilpatri@sgi.duh.com wrote:
>> ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:
>>
>> >Sorry, you lose. What do you think of Rev. Fred Phelps' site known as
>> >"GodHatesFaggots.com"?  I am only giving our arrogant heteros a little
>> >taste of what kind of blasphemy is poured upon us gays every moment of
>> >every day of our lives.
>>
>> Hatred is evil, no matter what side you're on.
>
>This is where your opinion and mine differ, and probably why you have a
>problem relating to Ezekiel.  Since it's my job, or my future job, to mediate
>such situations, I guess I'll start practicing now....So here goes.
>
>Justified hatred is not evil.  Some people have done things for which they
>deserve much hatred indeed.

The key concept here is *people* have done things for which they as
INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE deserve much hatred. Zekey is not talking about
individual people.



>It is not a good idea to generalize a whole group of people...So perhaps what
>you percieve to be his generalization of hetrosexuals is not a good thing,

Yes, his "generalization of heterosexuals is not a good thing".
And the "not good thing" that it is bigotry.


>but his expression of hatred for homophobes most certainly is constructive
>for him.

First, he does not express hatred for homophobes, he expresses hatred
for heterosexuals. Second, hatred is not a cathartic emotion if
someone dwells in it, and Zekey dwells in his hatred- it is
all-consuming.


>It is better that he express his feelings, feelings that some others share,
>than to keep them pent up.

Well that is certainly true- but that does not make the opinions any
less bigoted.


>  Also, it is good for him to be human...It keeps
>those of us who agree with much of what he says aware that he is not a god,
>and keeps us thinking for ourselves.

Nicole- exactly what is it that he specifically says that you feel
this strong agreement with?



>I don't agree with everything Ezekiel says, but I do agree with his
>self-preservation, self-defense, and strategic offense, ideas.

Everyone here wants self-preservation, self-defense, and strategic
offense. Those statements do not quite describe Zekey's positions.



>  If he hates
>heterosexuals (which he doesn't, that I can tell, because I can see the
>difference between a genuine insult, and a prod) then that is because of his
>experiences.  I would never presume to deny him the validity and value of his
>experiences.

He is suffering from more than a reaction to his experiences.



>> You're just as evil as he
>> is.  A black racist is less wrong than a white one.
>
>I think you were trying to say a Black racist is no less wrong than a White
>one, and in that case, you'd be wrong to.

No, racism- any form of bigotry- is wrong no mater who it comes from
or who it is directed at. Yes, when an oppressed minority feels
bigotry against a majority group it is certainly easier to empathize
with how the bigotry came about, but that does not make the bigotry
any better.


>Let's take the case of Angela Davis vs. the case of Ronald Regan.
>They lived in some of the same areas around the same times...
[snip for brevity]
>Only problem is that people are not two different competitive species' like
>lions and hyenas...That makes both Regan's and Davis's hate counterporductive
>for humanity, but constructive, possibly, for themselves.

Now compare Angela Davis to Coretta Scott King. She also grew up
surrounded by bigotry and violence, and her husband was the greatest
teacher of peace and civil rights in this country. After her husband
was assassinated by a white man did she become a racist against white
people? No. She was above that, and she still stands for what her
husband stood for- equality for all people.
THAT is someone to look up to- not Angela Davis or Ronald Regan.

(Can you believe they renamed Washington National Airport after HIM?
Gag me.)



>It is not the ideal...it is the reality.
>When someone is hurt, they remember, and they naturally seek vengeance.

No, not everyone seeks vengeance. Some of us seek justice.
Bigotry toward an entire group of people just because they have
similar characteristics to the ones who hurt you is NOT justice.



>When someone who has not been hurt feels threatened, they will do anything
>they can to preserve the systems that keep them in power, for fear of
>reciprocation of the pain they have caused directly or indirectly.
>Understanding this, and understanding that people have faults, fears, and
>insecurities, one must also understand that those faults do not negate the
>virtues that person may have.

>In a nutshell, accept that the most radical and powerful forces for the gay
>rights movement, will be just a tad biased.  Just as with anything or anyone
>else, take the good you can get from it, and scrap the rest.

>Support the causes you like, and don't support the ones you don't.
>I have noticed that a good deal of time is spent talking shit about Ezekiel,
>but little time is spent talking about the good things he has to say, and the
>fact that some of us think it's high time to stop asking for things from "the
>man" and start voting when we should, and shooting when we must.
>
>> Hating someone for their sexual preference is wrong, no matter what
>> that preference may be.
>
>Hating someone simply for their color is wrong too, but you have to know the
>difference between "hate" and "initial mistrust" (also known as "prejudice")
>Prejudice is natural, as is hate, but there is a difference between prejudice
>and racism or sexism.  Vanilla-heterocentrics have hurt many of us terribly,
>and there is nothing wrong with being wary of people until you know that they
>are not out to hurt you.  That's intelligence, and learning from one's
>experiences...not hate.

And there is a difference between being cautious and being bigoted.
What Ezekiel does is not simply cautious apprehension. He has attacked
straight pro-gay posters in this newsgroup just because they were
straight, he has attacked gay posters just because they disagree with
his attitude.



>> All you've done is prove that you're as much
>> of a wacko nutball as Phelps.  And that's quite an achievement.
>
>Perhaps, but there have been many "whackos" whose philosophies have bettered
>the world.

Name one. Name one hate-filled bigot who has made the world a better
place with his hate-filled bigotry.



>  Instead of talking shit, you should be taking notes.

TAKING NOTES?!? I assume you mean for a psychology thesis.


>Take what's good for you, discard the rest.

If one person gives you a plate piled high with a bunch of bacon fat
with a spinach leaf floating in it, and another gives you a nice salad
with a few baco-bits, are you going to spend time digging through the
fat for the spinach, or just dump that plate and take the salad?


-- 
+----- Peace & Love, ----+------- Magenta77 (at) AOL (dot) com ------+
|  /| /| _  _  _  _-|-_  |"There are more things in heaven and earth,|
| / |/ |(_|(_|(/_| )|(_| |...Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." |
|_________  _/ __________|_________________--[Hamlet Act I: Scene V]_|

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:53:48 GMT

On 3 Sep 1998 05:37:41 GMT, look@my.sig4address (Magenta) wrote:

>The key concept here is *people* have done things for which they as
>INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE deserve much hatred. Zekey is not talking about
>individual people.

That's right. For once, you got something right, Placenta.  I am
speaking of social trends, mass phobia, and mob mentality. The issue
of homopobia is not a one-on-one thing.

>Yes, his "generalization of heterosexuals is not a good thing".
>And the "not good thing" that it is bigotry.

I generalize the majority of heteros in this country to be
heterocentric...as well as perhaps the majority of gays...in the
U.S.A. Heterocentrism is not only hateful towards homosexuals, but
also to women, children, animals, and nature.

>First, he does not express hatred for homophobes, he expresses hatred
>for heterosexuals. 

Uh-oh, now you're back to your old ways...getting things all wrong
again. My hatred is to heterosexists...and to the many smarmy heteros
who brag about how liberal/gay-friendly they are, when they turn out
to be quite otherwise.

>Second, hatred is not a cathartic emotion if someone dwells in it, 
>and Zekey dwells in his hatred- it is all-consuming.

Vengeance is mine.  It is not yours to decide, Placenta.

>>It is better that he express his feelings, feelings that some others share,
>>than to keep them pent up.
>
>Well that is certainly true- but that does not make the opinions any
>less bigoted.

They were never bigoted in the first place.

>Nicole- exactly what is it that he specifically says that you feel
>this strong agreement with?

This is what I mean about some gays in these newsgroups...the obvious
already has been stated...yet they pretend it hasn't, just to waste
the time of those whose ideas they can't handle.  They are
manipulative, deceitful, backstabbing, and none too bright.

>Everyone here wants self-preservation, self-defense, and strategic
>offense. Those statements do not quite describe Zekey's positions.

Yes, of course, I forget: you are the last word in all this.

>He is suffering from more than a reaction to his experiences.

The only suffering going on from my perspective, is the burden of
fools like you, gumming up our progress.

>No, racism- any form of bigotry- is wrong no mater who it comes from
>or who it is directed at. 

Don't you speak golden words! Too bad they turn to lead as soon as
they spill from your tongue. You are like reverse alchemy.

>Yes, when an oppressed minority feels bigotry against a 
>majority group it is certainly easier to empathize
>with how the bigotry came about, but that does not make 
>the bigotry any better.

We already know you are a mouthpiece for our conservative queer
elitist community. Why brag about it?

>Now compare Angela Davis to Coretta Scott King. She also grew up
>surrounded by bigotry and violence, and her husband was the greatest
>teacher of peace and civil rights in this country. After her husband
>was assassinated by a white man did she become a racist against white
>people? No. She was above that, and she still stands for what her
>husband stood for- equality for all people.

But her style of resistance is quite different than mine. I use
parody, mimicry, mirroring, and aggressive stances. Ms. King's is
serious, directly, with very little theatrical humor to present her
viewpoints. We are different characters, though on the same
wavelength. I believe Ms. Kings would appreciate very much my creative
approach to defanging society's homophobia.

>No, not everyone seeks vengeance. Some of us seek justice.

Vengeance is righteous if you are fighting violent attitudes.
Vengeance is just another word for justice. I seek vengeance, I seek
justice. Vengeance. Justice. Veangeance. Justice. Retribution.

>Bigotry toward an entire group of people just because they have
>similar characteristics to the ones who hurt you is NOT justice.

It is not bigotry that I have. And the "entire group" are all those
who compose the heterocentric attitudes that condemn homosexuals.
I love how you so willfully act as apologists to "soft-core"
homophobes, by saying they just *happen to share similar
characteristics with virulent homophobes. The soft core gay haters
won't lift a finger to save gays...while the virulent ones keep
bashing them. The former may not have blood on their hands, but their
souls are certainly stained.

>And there is a difference between being cautious and being bigoted.
>What Ezekiel does is not simply cautious apprehension. He has attacked
>straight pro-gay posters in this newsgroup just because they were
>straight, 

Nonsense. I have attacked some heteros who claim to be gay
friendly...but then after a few more messages, I realize they are
unforgiveably ignorant. Their simplistic ideas of who and what gays
really are, are too offensive to accept with any respect. For example:
they can't conceive of teaching children about gays, without believing
that you'd be pornographic in doing so. Or they think it's horrible
when a straight couple gets kicked out of a gay hangot for heavy
petting...even though hetero clubs would do a lot worse to gays who do
same in *their hangouts. If str8ts were really honest about this, they
would put a placard at the door of their clubs and bars: "Faggots not
welcome". Because that's what it boils down to.

>he has attacked gay posters just because they disagree with
>his attitude.

No, not "just because". They disagree with certain basic respect that
people should have towards each other. Such as when I mention I am
disabled, get a gov't stipend for that, and have borderline
schizophrenia...I am attacked by vultures. These are shameful people,
who behave like that...and they are gay! And now, they enjoy bringing
up my anomalies, as if this disqualifies me from any participation in
the human race. Hey, forget that I'm gay...that doesn't matter in this
crowd! I love the sense of outreach these queeny vultures
have...Placenta included, of course. It is far preferable to suffer
with schizophrenia, than with sadistic psychoses...in my book!

>Name one. Name one hate-filled bigot who has made the world a better
>place with his hate-filled bigotry.

Jesus Christ.

>TAKING NOTES?!? I assume you mean for a psychology thesis.

If you took notes, even occasionally, then you might actually come up
with something intelligent to say.

>If one person gives you a plate piled high with a bunch of bacon fat
>with a spinach leaf floating in it, and another gives you a nice salad
>with a few baco-bits, are you going to spend time digging through the
>fat for the spinach, or just dump that plate and take the salad?

You need to change your diet. You are what you eat...and it shows.

>+----- Peace & Love, ----+------- Magenta77 (at) AOL (dot) com ------+

Look at that shit: "Peach & Love". Proving the old adage:  Saying so
doesn't make it so.


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
Either URL below, will keep you updated with the 
"Peenuts" copyright issue:

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Jeffrey Croft 
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:18:37 -0700

> This is what I mean about some gays in these newsgroups...the obvious
> already has been stated...yet they pretend it hasn't, just to waste
> the time of those whose ideas they can't handle.  They are
> manipulative, deceitful, backstabbing, and none too bright.

Oh, good god. Blah, blah, blah.

> Vengeance is righteous if you are fighting violent attitudes.

Are you gonna start exacting vengeance for your own violent attitudes? It would
be righteous, n'est-ce pas?

> It is not bigotry that I have. And the "entire group" are all those
> who compose the heterocentric attitudes that condemn homosexuals.
> I love how you so willfully act as apologists to "soft-core"
> homophobes, by saying they just *happen to share similar
> characteristics with virulent homophobes. The soft core gay haters
> won't lift a finger to save gays...while the virulent ones keep
> bashing them. The former may not have blood on their hands, but their
> souls are certainly stained.

I understand what you mean. My parents are "soft-core" homophobes. They wouldn't
do anything actively to attack gay people, but they probably wouldn't do
anything to help our cause.

> Nonsense. I have attacked some heteros who claim to be gay
> friendly...but then after a few more messages, I realize they are
> unforgiveably ignorant.

I have met the kind of people you are talking about, but I am concerned that you
are including too many people in the "unforgivably ignorant" category.

> No, not "just because". They disagree with certain basic respect that
> people should have towards each other. Such as when I mention I am
> disabled, get a gov't stipend for that, and have borderline
> schizophrenia...I am attacked by vultures. These are shameful people,
> who behave like that...and they are gay! And now, they enjoy bringing
> up my anomalies, as if this disqualifies me from any participation in
> the human race. Hey, forget that I'm gay...that doesn't matter in this
> crowd! I love the sense of outreach these queeny vultures
> have...Placenta included, of course. It is far preferable to suffer
> with schizophrenia, than with sadistic psychoses...in my book!

You really are quite consumed by your hate, aren't you? In my observation,
people who are in control are much more effective that people who are so
consumed.

Jeff
jdcroft@nospam.best.com



========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:56:08 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:18:37 -0700, Jeffrey Croft
 wrote:

>You really are quite consumed by your hate, aren't you? In my observation,
>people who are in control are much more effective that people who are so
>consumed.

I'm a consumer advocate...and I demand exact retribution for the
homophobia I must constantly confront, whether I want to or not, in
this land of the ripoff and unapologetically insane. It has killed my
lovers and my friends, but it won't kill me. I'll kill *it.

Give us marriage or give us death:  Slay the beast of homophobia!


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
Either URL below, will keep you updated with the 
"Peenuts" copyright issue:

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Frank Martinez Lester 
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:19:54 -0700

[[Who is going to exact righteous vengeance against you for your own violent
atittudes?>>

Nobody.  "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord."  And Krahlin is the Lord.
Hallelujah.  Let us pray.




========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:58:27 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:19:54 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester
 wrote:

>Nobody.  "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord."  And Krahlin is the Lord.
>Hallelujah.  Let us pray.

I am a voice to be reckoned with...but I am no one but Ezekiel. The
spark of God is within me, and it speaks through me, and guides my
destiny. Everyone contains this divine spark.

As a shaman, I experience being some of the great ones...and what I
acquire is a bit of their knowledge and personality. This goes for
archtypes (as Carl Jung called them) as well...beings that never exist
in the material dimension, but nonetheless real. But I, Ezekiel, am in
command...I run the show, I am in the driver's seat.

I am in the process  of educating as many gays as possible, how to use
this inner resource, for it is a fountain of inspiration and guidance.
You have my attention, because I either annoy you, or make you laugh.
Either way, you are unlikely to forget my words, when the time comes
to learn from the things I am presently teaching in these threads.

Mind you: what I teach is not totally upfront, but subliminal. The
understandings will emerge later, when you are ready.

And what I teach is to empower you with the same gifts that have been
bestowed upon me, one of our vanguards for the next gay revolution to
emerge around the globe. I have no right to keep them to myself, as I
am intended to be one of the distributors of these gifts. There are
others who will either soon speak up, as I am, or who already are in
far flung corners of the world...and we have yet to connect. But we
will, via the Internet.

There is no need for me to persuade anyone as to my abilities, and
destiny, as it is all pretty much on automatic at this point. The
Charles Schulz debacle, I believe, will be the catalyst that will
create incredible waves and ripples to inspire and motivate gay
activism like we've never seen it before.

My goal is to make the gay mystique so prideful to the entire world,
that before I pass through, every Catholic woman on earth will pray to
God that her next son or daughter grow up gay.


---
Right-wing queers are all it takes
To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes.
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Either URL below, will keep you updated 
with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue:
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Nicole Lasher 
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 14:34:58 +0300

Magenta, it is nice that you hate bigotry.  I hate it too, but if you will fight
bigotry, then you must first, accept its reality.
Bigotry is not some undefinable thing spawned by Satan or something.  It is a
human creation...a human condition...It also has its roots in nature.
A few thousand years of "civilization" cannot make up for 3 million years of
evolution.  Humans, as many other animals, are instinctively wary of predators. 
In the case of humans who kill other humans for no reason other than prejudice,
these are better described as "cannibals".
When a person has an encounter with a predator/cannibal the first time, they
either react in one of three ways:
They run, or attempt to run.
They stand and fight; or
they acquiesse and accept their impending doom.
If the individual lives, and they encounter a potential predator/cannibal a second
time, or more they will either run again, fight again, or give in to doom again,
but this time, they know what the possibilities are.  Some will choose to be
proactive rather than reactive.
None of these is morally wrong, depending on one's values...but because of
"sheeple" religions and values, many people feel that the moral "high ground" is
to pretend, each time one comes into contact with a potential predator/cannibal
that they have never encountered one before, and if attacked again, to acquiesse
to one's doom.
You brought up Coretta Scott King as an example to rebuff my example of comparing
Angela Davis and Ronald Regan, but you missed the point of that example because
you were too busy reading your anti-bigotry script.  So, I'll explain again, that
I am not pro-bigotry, but I am pro-realism; and I will spell out the meaning for
you, and analyse the example you have given.
Angela Davis is racist against Whites, usually, until they prove themselves to be
not out to kill her, because so many have tried.  Ronald Regan is racist against
Blacks because he believes them to be inferior, but only acted on it sincerely,
when he was surprised by the fact that Blacks didn't like living in a veritable
police state/ghetto (in the very mildly Warsaw type sense, as it wasn't nearly as
bad, but could have become that bad) environment, and faught to do something about
it.
Their forms of bigotry may be just as "bad" as each other, but they are for
different reasons:  Davis's because of past trauma, and Regan's because of
upbringing and fear.  Neither of these neccessarily justifies it totally, but I
would say that on a scale of zero to 10, Regan's level of justifiability is on a
level of zero, and Davis's is on a level of 5...by today's standards anyway.  Back
in the '60's her level of justification would have been at 9.  Meaning, it's not
totally justifiable, but extremely understandable.
As for Coretta Scott King, I seriously doubt that she is less bigoted than either
of these two.  She just chose a different way of reacting because she has no fear
of defenseless death.  I imagine that she sees her husband as a martyr and would
be happy to be murdered weaponless as he did, knowing that someone was going to
kill him.  This is the "moral high ground" but it does not make her non-racist, or
not bigoted.
It is likely, that Mrs. King, though she does not fear a defenseless death, feels
that there is a potential for her death whenever she speaks in a public place.  It
is also likely, that she assumes that her murder would be carried out by someone
who was a White supremacist, or someone serving White supremacist interests.  She,
likely, prepares for her death ever time she speaks in public, or is without
bodyguards, or comes into contact with a White person she doesn't know.  She,
likely, feels less of this twinge of wariness when she comes in contact with Black
people she doesn't know.
I can't say this for certain, but it seems so.
So, just because someone reacts differently to violence at the hands of a large
segment of a society, does not mean that they are not prejudiced against that
segment.  Awareness of prejudice actually decreases hatred, rather than increasing
it.  It puts things on a more honest level.
If a White person goes to work in a Black majority company, and doesn't know why
he is being avoided, or is "not in the loop", when he gets passed over for
promotion, or one of the more hateful (not bigoted) co-workers tells him off, he
assumes that the whole company is enabling racism.  In fact, they did, because
they did not talk to him about this when he first got there.
They did not tell him that yes, he has something to prove, but that once people
get to know him and know he's not so bad, they'll get better, and that if someone
is giving him trouble, he can go to the boss, and get it handled.
When you believe that tacit bigotry is any less real than explicit bigotry, you
set yourself up for problems and misunderstandings later.
There are people who see all people as the same, but they live away from society
on mountains in monasteries and convents.  If you live among people, you will note
that there are different cultures and different sets of values.
Some of the most observable aspects of some cultures are quite dangerous to people
of other cultures.  It will be a long time before Whites are percieved as "nice,
friendly people with only a few bad ones, as with any group" instead of
"materialistic, hateful, arrogant, spoiled people with only a few good ones among
them" by the majority of Blacks, regardless of what we say to the media about
peace and love.  Peace and love may be the goal, but as it stands, we are quite
aware that peace and love only works when people are willing to love you back. 
The vocal masses of Whites who stand and stood against racism, including Whites
who are members of the very much armed U.S. armed forces (and fight for freedom
regardless of their personal opinions) have done much to dispel the myths about
them...but memories die hard, especially when every so often, there is a lynching
to remind us of where we truly stand, and that we have to stay aware.
The law, a nice ideal, says innocent until proven guilty, but nature says guilty
until proven innocent.  A person may be capable of handling the consequences of
inactivity in the face of a potential threat, but that does not mean that there is
no threat, or that the threatened is not aware of the threat...They just choose to
accept the consequences because they believe that their purpose would be better
served by their death than by their life.  The pro self defense activist knows
they are under the same risk, and also, doesn't fear death, but instead of the
"sacrificial lamb" mentality, they prefer that when they die, they will take some
of the enemy with them.
I don't either of these types is more or less bigoted than the other.  I don't
think either of these is more right or wrong than the other.  Both types serve a
purpose.
Oh, and about "whackos" who have bettered the world with their "bigotry":

Ghandi (who was, by the way, very pro-Hindu and anti-English, even down to
convincing people to put away from their lives any influence from Europeans...not
just for the purpose of self-sufficiency, but also for separatism.)
Huey Newton, who was indeed, quite "whacko" but offered Blacks a basis of activism
that wasn't rooted in religion, which was considered an insane thing to do at the
time, but it took off like wildfire, and the influences are still around today.
Yitzhak Rabin, who believed in Jewish/Arab separatism, and therefore, wanted to
provide more land and means for Arabs to be autonamous, and was killed because the
orthodox would, mostly, rather just have the Arabs dead, or somewhere other than
Israel, than to give them land...so milder forms of bigotry are stamped out by the
more extreme, but Rabin was, by no means absolutely innocent of bigotry.  If he
were, he would have brought forth a proposal to make all Palestinians Israeli
citizens under the law immediately, whether they wanted it or not, since they were
born here.
Abraham Lincoln, who was a bigot, and owned slaves, but believed, in principle,
that the institution of slavery as it was back then, was not feasable for the
growth and development of the United States.  He was not only bigoted towards
Blacks, but against what he, likely, thought of as "white trash"...farmers and
plantation owners who didn't want to get with the times and industry.  He felt
they were holding the rest of the country down.
But, he got a good thing accomplished, freeing slaves, so the rest just kinda gets
lost in that one major positive.

There are more, but you can read for yourself.
Sometimes we do have to wade through the lard to get to the spinach.

~Niki


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:56:15 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 14:34:58 +0300, Nicole Lasher
 wrote:

>Sometimes we do have to wade through the lard to get to the spinach.

I hate spinach...though I am a vegetarian.


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
Either URL below, will keep you updated with the 
"Peenuts" copyright issue:

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:36:03 GMT

On 2 Sep 1998 11:11:13 GMT, kilpatri@sgi.duh.com wrote:

>Hating someone for their sexual preference is wrong, no matter what
>that preference may be.  All you've done is prove that you're as much
>of a wacko nutball as Phelps.  And that's quite an achievement.

Satire is as satire does. Perhaps you'll understand some day, when you
lose your peach fuzz.



---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: kilpatri@sgi.duh.com
Date: 2 Sep 1998 19:35:53 GMT

ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:

>Satire is as satire does. Perhaps you'll understand some day, when you
>lose your peach fuzz.

Oh, I do understand.  The problem is that when the satirist(sp?)
starts sounding too much like his satire that it becomes 
obvious that it isn't satire anymore.

In otherwords, if you had espoused some common sense, instead of
saying that any comic author who doesn't address gay issues on
a regular basis is 'fair game', we might think you are a witty
satirist.  Instead, you seem to believe what you say, which is
what's scary....
--
John A. Kilpatrick                        Systems/Network Administrator
kilpatri@sgi.com                       Silicon Graphics Inc., Team TREX
http://reality.sgi.com/kilpatri/	                 (650) 933-4387
                "Kick! Punch! It's all in the mind..."

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 21:41:26 GMT

On 2 Sep 1998 19:35:53 GMT, kilpatri@sgi.duh.com wrote:

>In otherwords, if you had espoused some common sense, instead of
>saying that any comic author who doesn't address gay issues on
>a regular basis is 'fair game', we might think you are a witty
>satirist.  Instead, you seem to believe what you say, which is
>what's scary....

I am criticising our mainstream comic strips, which are the dailies
and the Sundays. Any author of any of these strips is definitely fair
game...with the exception of two: Dunesbury and "For Better Or Worse".


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:44:58 GMT

On 2 Sep 1998 19:35:53 GMT, kilpatri@sgi.duh.com wrote:

>ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:
>
>>Satire is as satire does. Perhaps you'll understand some day, when you
>>lose your peach fuzz.
>
>Oh, I do understand.  The problem is that when the satirist(sp?)
>starts sounding too much like his satire that it becomes 
>obvious that it isn't satire anymore.
>
>In otherwords, if you had espoused some common sense, instead of
>saying that any comic author who doesn't address gay issues on
>a regular basis is 'fair game', we might think you are a witty
>satirist.  Instead, you seem to believe what you say, which is
>what's scary....

To [post endless reams of irritating and stupid stuff and then cop out
by announcing that it was "satire" the whole time in beyond any
reasonable measurement.

Killfile this pitiful turkey!


ward



"A woman must learn in silence and be completely submissive.
I do not permit a woman to act as teacher
or in any way to have authority over a man;
she must be quiet."
     --St. Paul instructing Timothy, 1Tim2:11f.

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:53:51 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:44:58 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
wrote:

>To [post endless reams of irritating and stupid stuff and then cop out
>by announcing that it was "satire" the whole time in beyond any
>reasonable measurement.

I think you need a rest, old Beelzebub. Let another demon take over
for a while. You're kind of losing it.


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
Either URL below, will keep you updated with the 
"Peenuts" copyright issue:

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:18:17 -0700

In article <6sj94h$end$1@murrow.corp.sgi.com>, kilpatri@sgi.duh.com wrote:

>ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes:
>
>>Sorry, you lose. What do you think of Rev. Fred Phelps' site known as
>>"GodHatesFaggots.com"?  I am only giving our arrogant heteros a little
>>taste of what kind of blasphemy is poured upon us gays every moment of
>>every day of our lives. 
>
>Hatred is evil, no matter what side you're on.  You're just as evil as he
>is.  A black racist is less wrong than a white one.
>
>Hating someone for their sexual preference is wrong, no matter what
>that preference may be.  All you've done is prove that you're as much
>of a wacko nutball as Phelps.  And that's quite an achievement.

Krahlin has demonstrated that he he is an anti-Semetic, racist, woman
hater.  If he weren't any of those, he would have had Jewish, minority, and
women characters in his works; by leaving them out, he has demonstrated
that he is a bigot.  His own accusations against Charles Schultz prove
this.

--Michelle

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Michelle Steiner           | "An it harm none, do as thou will.   |
|  michelle@michelle.org      |  That is the whole of the law."      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 01:23:48 GMT

On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:18:17 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>Krahlin has demonstrated that he he is an anti-Semetic, racist, woman
>hater.  If he weren't any of those, he would have had Jewish, minority, and
>women characters in his works; by leaving them out, he has demonstrated
>that he is a bigot.  His own accusations against Charles Schultz prove
>this.

Not only that, but he obviously (look at the lack of inclusion) hates
any ethnic group other than "caucasian" (Heil Krahlin!), abhors
heterosexuals, despises animals (ever see any animals in his
cartoons?) and hates modes of transportation other than walking.

It's obvious, isn't it?

It's all in his cartoons.

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:09:02 GMT

On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:18:17 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle
Steiner) wrote:

>Krahlin has demonstrated that he he is an anti-Semetic, racist, woman
>hater.  If he weren't any of those, he would have had Jewish, minority, and
>women characters in his works; by leaving them out, he has demonstrated
>that he is a bigot.  

Then you haven't really checked out my web pages. I have a gay woman
of color in one of my images:

	http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ikons/dykeprez.htm

I parody Cathy in my Gay Comics series:

	http://members.tripod.com/~ezekielk/cathy.htm

And my tale, "The Mask of Horus" is about the gay version of
Passover...and the Gods and Goddess therein that run the show, are
multi-ethnic.

	http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/write/horus.htm

Then of course, there is my special site, "Other Voices / Other Minds"
where I invite non-mainstream gay people to present their stories and
art:

	http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Stonewall/8944/

 In fact, I offer them their own free web page. The spiel for that
site goes like so:

---begin quote
This could be you! I invite original contributions from gay people
(and their allies), especially those who don't fit in with the
mainstream, urbanized, jaded queer "elite" who often bar true
individualists from participating. Are you lesbian or gay, and:
homeless? veteran of Viet Nam or other war? person of color? low
income or no income? eccentric and straightforward? isolated in rural
or small-town America or other nation? I offer you your own space on
my site, when other gay-identified places will not. I want your
stories! (Or poems, essays, original graphics!) When ready,
just click on my e-mail below, and post your piece! 
---end quote

>His own accusations against Charles Schultz prove
>this.

Really? If some drunk driver hit me with a car and I sued her, would
you call me anti-semitic, if it turned out she was Jewish? 

My accusations are not against Schulz per se, but against the
mainstream comics community...of which Peanuts has become the
classical symbol of Amerikan Sunday comics...thus a target of my
parody.  Speaking of "Peanuts", your mind is one!



---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: repoman@rupert.honors.montana.edu (Rev. E. Lloyd Olson)
Date: 2 Sep 1998 15:48:04 GMT

In article <35ecf9e8.17822431@nntp.sj.bigger.net>,
Ezekiel Krahlin  wrote:
>On Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:40:01 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester
> wrote:

>>"GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com" is a sentiment that the ancient Greek
>>forebears you praise on your site would unquestionably disown.

>Sorry, you lose. What do you think of Rev. Fred Phelps' site known as
>"GodHatesFaggots.com"?  I am only giving our arrogant heteros a little
>taste of what kind of blasphemy is poured upon us gays every moment of
>every day of our lives. What's the matter, can't take it? So what, if
>some innocent-bystander gay-friendly heteros get caught in the fray?
>*All of us gays are under constant hateful attacks...and aren't we all
>innocent? What did we do to be so hated? 

	Phelps is an asshole.  Insofar as you choose to emulate him, you
are also an asshole.

>It's only fair that more heteros, who consider themselves gay
>friendly, have some of this bitter taste in their own mouths...and
>then, perhaps, just perhaps, they will lift a finger to fight with us.
>It's not enough just to be "gay friendly", and pat yourself on the
>back for saying so. Where's the real action behind that claim? Seems
>that 9 out of every 10 hets who call themselves gay friendly, haven't
>done one single thing to contribute to gay rights...whether in money
>or elbow grease. They are snakes in the grass.

	Maybe I'm not gay-friendly enough then.  All I do is carry out
my business day by day with whomever wants to deal with me, and deal
with people with no regard for sexual orientation.  I'm no less likely
to rent to you or buy from you if you happen to be gay, but I'm no more
likely to either.  I haven't been on a jury, but you can bet if I was
on a jury at a gay-bashing trial, the defendant wouldn't get off easy.
I don't give to charity, but I support the local Lambda funddraisers,
but that's because I think I get value from it -- they are fun to attend.
Am I a snake then?  Would you rather I was a homophobe?

>Don't you see what is being done to us? The anti-gay ad in San
>Francisco, DOMA? This is the result of the mass of heteros who are not
>part of the religious right...and many who regard themselves as
>"progressive". Can you really blame all this sanction against us as
>soley a religious right attack?

	I can't comment on the anti-gay ad, because I don't know what 
that paper's editorial policy is;  i.e., if they make a practice of
running ads from whoever wants to place them no matter what they say,
even if the KKK wanted one page and the Black Panthers wanted the next,
then it's cool to sell the anti-gay ad;  if, on the other hand, they
bar some ads for offensive content and let this one through, that shows
anti-gay bias, and should warrant a boycott.

	DOMA is a fucking joke.  I've been telling all my Robertson-
groupie acquaintances that if they really wanted to defend marriage,
instead of refusing to recognize gay marriages, they'd refuse to
recognize MULTIPLE marriages -- your first marriage would count and
any subsequent ones wouldn't.

	And I don't know anyone who thinks DOMA progressive.  Most of
my friends think it reeks of religious socialist sentiment.


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:36:20 GMT

On 2 Sep 1998 15:48:04 GMT, repoman@rupert.honors.montana.edu (Rev. E.
Lloyd Olson) wrote:

>	Phelps is an asshole.  Insofar as you choose to emulate him, you
>are also an asshole.

No doubt you think Jonathan Swift was an asshole for emulating British
aristocracy in his essay "A Modest Proposal".

What can I say? Some people have such flat brains, that satire and
parody bounce off them like a nerf ball.



---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 00:55:10 GMT

On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:36:20 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel
Krahlin) wrote:

>On 2 Sep 1998 15:48:04 GMT, repoman@rupert.honors.montana.edu (Rev. E.
>Lloyd Olson) wrote:

>>	Phelps is an asshole.  Insofar as you choose to emulate him, you
>>are also an asshole.

>No doubt you think Jonathan Swift was an asshole for emulating British
>aristocracy in his essay "A Modest Proposal".

No, because that was satire.

Much like Michael Swift's work was satire.

You might try writing satire some day -- the exercise would do you
good.

>What can I say? Some people have such flat brains, that satire and
>parody bounce off them like a nerf ball.

Satire and parody are one thing -- vicious attacks, ad-hominems and
lack of cognitive ability are quite another.

And dude, stop misquoting Archilocus.

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:09:12 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 00:55:10 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J.
Northwood) wrote:

>And dude, stop misquoting Archilocus.

Stop lying.


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 05:07:58 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:09:12 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel
Krahlin) wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 00:55:10 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J.
>Northwood) wrote:

>>And dude, stop misquoting Archilocus.

>Stop lying.

I'm not.

You're the one giving a _very_ different translation from any I've
read.  If you're sure it's right--if you're _sure_ it's legit--then
give me the cite, as I've requested twice now, to prove your point.

Without refutation, Eugene, the cite stands "Saian" and _not_
"Thracian".

Give me the cite from which you've drawn your quote.

Reference to previous refutation follows:

===================================
From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality,gay-net.general,
            alt.homosexual,soc.motss
Subject:    Re: Of the political will to be and remain gay
Date:       Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:11:41 GMT
Message-ID: <6s6oir$t4f$1@news-1.news.gte.net>

< snip >

And, it should be noted, although his name was made through his
poetry, he (and his supporters) found his primary calling was, like
Petronius and Erasmus, as a satirist.

Why don't you write down any of the poetry he composed before his
betrothal to Neobule (daughter of Lycambes), or the vitriolic wrath he
expressed through writing after her father forbade the marriage--for
his public acknowledgement of his bastardy.

Regardless, w/r/t your (mis)quoting from Fragment V of his poetry, the
McKlosky translation reads:

"Some Saian boasts about the shield which beside a bush
 though good armor I unwillingly left behind.
 I saved myself, so what do I care about the shield?
 To hell with it! I'll get one soon just as good."

Whereas the Hope translation reads:

"I left my poor shield--
 What a fine shield that was!--
 Behind some shrub.
 A Saian exults with it now!
 But I did save myself!
 Why should I grieve
 For that old shield?
 It's gone and good riddance!
 I'll find me another one.
 No worse."

Funny, going through seven translations of Archilochos' poetry, I
don't find a single mention of "Thracian".

If you're going to screw around with classical literature and poetry,
at least pretend to have the common decency to admit it.
===================================

I'm not lying, Eugene, but the evidence--or your unwillingness to
provide it--points to the opposite conclusion for you.

   ~ Jon


**********************************************

         Mendacem memorem esse oportet

**********************************************

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:53:52 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 05:07:58 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J.
Northwood) wrote:

>>>And dude, stop misquoting Archilocus.
>
>>Stop lying.
>
>I'm not.
>
>You're the one giving a _very_ different translation from any I've
>read.  If you're sure it's right--if you're _sure_ it's legit--then
>give me the cite, as I've requested twice now, to prove your point.

Oh, I'll find it alright. I'm just not in any rush, as you are not
worth the time. Meanwhile, you might want to duke it out with Ken
Layne, editor of Tabloid news...as he sent me that quote in his
comments on my guestbook at 


http://saturn.guestworld.tripod.lycos.com/wgb/wgbview.dbm?owner=thracian

His comments are right at the top of the guestbook...unless another
signs it before you check it out.

But his is not the first time I've read that stanza, translated as
"Thracian". In fact, I'm sure you have such a one handy, but are
suppressing it to suit your fat ego. It is such an easy case to
disprove, that you only make yourself seem even more of a fool, by
pressing this issue.

Don't worry, I will have the reference for you in due time. But as I
said: go speak with Ken Layne on the topic...as I'm sure he'll be
quite amused. (In fact, I should let him know about my Schulz
confrontation...he might be interested in doing an article.)


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
Either URL below, will keep you updated with the 
"Peenuts" copyright issue:

http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:23:53 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:53:52 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel
Krahlin) wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 05:07:58 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J.
>Northwood) wrote:

>>You're the one giving a _very_ different translation from any I've
>>read.  If you're sure it's right--if you're _sure_ it's legit--then
>>give me the cite, as I've requested twice now, to prove your point.

>Oh, I'll find it alright. I'm just not in any rush, as you are not
>worth the time. 

IOW, you don't have it, you don't know where to look for it, and
you're bluffing.

>Meanwhile, you might want to duke it out with Ken
>Layne, editor of Tabloid news...as he sent me that quote 

I wrote him this morning.

>His comments are right at the top of the guestbook...unless another
>signs it before you check it out.

>But his is not the first time I've read that stanza, translated as
>"Thracian". 

Then why don't you have a cite for it?

Do you really need everyone else to do your leg work for you, Eugene?

>In fact, I'm sure you have such a one handy, but are
>suppressing it to suit your fat ego. 

Bullshit, Eugene.

I don't lie about scholarship.

I didn't when I was working for my history degree, I didn't while I
was doing post-grad psychology work, and I didn't (and don't) when
posting research and findings to UseNet.

If you're claiming I'm lying, Eugene, you're more than welcome to come
to my house, look at the books and see for yourself.

>It is such an easy case to
>disprove, that you only make yourself seem even more of a fool, by
>pressing this issue.

Oh?

Well then, since it's "such an easy case to disprove", why haven't
you?

Where's the cite?

>Don't worry, I will have the reference for you in due time. 

Don't worry, Eugene, vanity presses can have books you write and edit
printed out within a two-week time span, usually.

Shall I expect your cite about then?

>But as I said: go speak with Ken Layne on the topic...

From the Tabloid site:

"Mr. Layne also holds the distinction of owning the Former
 Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia's only country-western radio
 station. Doctors say he will not live to see the year 2002,
 due to congenital dependencies on booze, romance, tobacco,
 art and war. The germ of TABLOID first appeared in 1995;
 the fetus emerged late in 1996, when Mr. Layne and Charles
 Hornberger reported on a Michael Jackson concert in the
 Czech Republic, for the National Enquirer."

Glowing credentials.

Regardless, as noted, I wrote him earlier.

Let's see if he's more amenable to giving cites for his information
than you are, shall we?

>as I'm sure he'll be quite amused.

========================================
>Name: Ken Layne
>From: San Francisco
>Time: 1998-07-01 12:32:04

>I'm an amateur scholar of Greek history and writing, and to
>this day have a hard time believing we came so close to a 
>civil society some 2,400 years ago and have been staggering 
>around like winos ever since.

>The Greek city-state life seemed to offer a place for 
>everybody, especially after the Philip-Alexander empire 
>let anybody claim Greek citizenship, as long as they were 
>interested enough to speak the language and take part in 
>the culture. (Of course, there's that troublesome slavery 
>issue, but I often wonder if it's worse to be a slave who 
>can earn his freedom or a corporate slave who is too scared 
>to ever make a move or take a stand.) If the weirdos could 
>get over their absurd worries about who fucks who, maybe 
>there wouldn't need to be refuges like the Castro. But as 
>long as the need exists, I'll be glad to help defend it.

>A bit of verse from the lunatic Archilochus, which came 
>to mind when I read yr stuff about the Thracians:

>"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
>which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
>But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
>Let it go, I'll get another no worse."

>That little chunk of battered war poetry has always cracked 
>me up.
========================================

The Greek nation (empire, some might say, especially after Alexander)
was open to foreigners, but it took a lot more than just being able to
"speak the language and take part in the culture."  His discussion of
Greek slavery is an oversimplified account at best, as the majority of
Greek slaves could not and did not "earn" their freedom; rather,
before the Roman incursions, Greek slaves could be freed by the death
of their master or an act of their master.  The only caveat was in
times of war -- if the slave volunteered for war, in about eighty
percent of cases, should they survive, they were given their freedom,
their armor and weaponry (a gift from the city-state) and two changes
of clothing.  For some, like Athens, a small amount of money was
included.  Regardless, in most cases, even the Tyrant of the city
could not overrule the master's wishes w/r/t the disposition of the
slaves, and this practice carried forth into Byzantium.

As well, I note that Kevin does not say he has a cite for this quote,
but that "[A] bit of verse from the lunatic Archilochus, which came to
mind when I read yr stuff about the Thracians . . ."

If you don't have a cite, and _he_ doesn't have a cite, and all the
cites I've found say Saian as opposed to Thracian, then I think you
need a bit more by way of written authority to say that _I'm_ the one
lying.

>(In fact, I should let him know about my Schulz
>confrontation...he might be interested in doing an article.)

Yes, Eugene, I'm sure he would be.

   ~ Jon

Addenda:

I received e-mail from Ken this afternoon.  He was kind enough to
respond quickly, and I wanted to bring forward part of the
conversation:

==================================

>Now, this is weird: I just did an Internet search and the
>first thing I came up with was from this classic page:
>http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/classics/ILSlyric.html

>... where it's neither Thracian nor Saian, but "barbarian."

>ARCHILOCHUS of Paros (680-640?)
>By spear is kneaded the bread I eat, by spear my Ismaric
>wine is won, which I drink, leaning on my spear.

>Some barbarian is waving my shield, since I was obliged to
>leave that perfectly good piece of equipment behind
>under a bush. But I got away, so what does it matter?
>Let the shield go; I can buy another one equally good.

> ... and a totally different style of translation from the
> ones I've seen before.  It's a goddamn shame I never learned
> Greek.  

>Ah ha!  Now check out this page, which will confuse us all
>ever more:
>http://www.northshore.net/homepages/hope/Archshield.html

>Here are some of the various translations:

==================================

Ken then provided me with the translations from the above-referenced
page, on which the following translations are given:

Ken Hope           "Saian"
J.M. Edmonds       "Saian"
Willis             "Thracian"
Lattimore          "Barbarian"
Marriss            "Thracian"
Will               "Saian"
M.L. West          "Saian"
Davenport          "Saian Mountaineer"
Barnstone          "Barbaric Thracian"
Mills              "Thracian"
Mulroy             "Thracian"
Rosenmeyer         "Native"
Rayor              "Thracian"
B.H. Fowler        "Saian"

So, apparently, "Thracian" is a valid translation.  I don't know why
none of the texts I have mention the "Thracian" translation (although
I do have the one w/r/t "Native"), but I obviously need to buy more
books.

(See, justification for self-indulgence . . .)

Ken deserves thanks, and Eugene deserves a rather tepid apology.

   ~ Jon

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:58:30 GMT

On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:23:53 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J.
Northwood) wrote:

>So, apparently, "Thracian" is a valid translation.  I don't know why
>none of the texts I have mention the "Thracian" translation (although
>I do have the one w/r/t "Native"), but I obviously need to buy more
>books.
>
>(See, justification for self-indulgence . . .)
>
>Ken deserves thanks, and Eugene deserves a rather tepid apology.

I would have found the references soon enough, anyway. I'm just
presently occupied with preparing for my day in court.

But I hardly think a tepid apology is equal to neutralizing your
ridiculous rants and slams against me, on this Arhilocus quote. Of
course, I don't expect a magnanimous gesture of any kind, to come from
your sort of character.


---
Right-wing queers are all it takes
To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes.
---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com
---
Either URL below, will keep you updated 
with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue:
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: Frank Martinez Lester 
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 10:59:24 -0700

Mr Krahlin:

Thank you for confirming that there is nothing further we have to discuss.  You are
completely unreceptive to anyone who does not agree with your bigoted separatist
agenda.  Your response is no surprise to me at all; it reads exactly like every
other post you write.

For you to label me "treasonous" when you know nothing about me or my life is the
height of arrogance, not to mention ignorance.  It must take a lot of energy to spew
so much hate into the world on a daily basis.  You are no better than the
heterosexual dictatorship you claim to be a warrior against.  You play right into
their hands.

Frank Martinez Lester


========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 21:41:26 GMT

On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 10:59:24 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester
 wrote:

>You play right into their hands.

And it sure feels good where they put 'em.



---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com

========
Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement!
From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 08:28:33 GMT

On Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:40:01 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester
 wrote:

>You have an agenda.  

MY PEENUT AGENDA
(c) 1998 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin

I will be dragged into the courts...hopefully with copious media
attention. And then I will say: 

"I will gladly remove my Peenuts parody, if Mr. Schulz will promise in
writing, that he will add a gay character or two in his regular
Peanuts comic strip. But if I can't even have that, I want to address
all our major newspapers...especially those in urban areas with a
major homosexual population:

Please, for God, for any god's, sake, start including one gay comic
strip in your daily and Sunday comics. Don't you see what is going to
happen to us gay people, if more of you heteros in power continue to
*not make an outspoken and incontrovertible stand for gay freedom?
Like it or not, we are dependent on heterosexuals for our liberty, our
food, our homes, our survival. We gay people cannot *possibly win our
rights on our own.

Where is your honor, your dignity, your sense of Amerikan values of
decency and fair play? Are you really so afraid of Christian fanatics
as to toe their party line, at the cost of gay people's annihilation?
Until you do the right thing, the heartfelt and respectful
thing...which is including a gay-relevant comic strip...our blood, gay
blood, will continue to be spilled across your pages, across your
headlines, across every newspaper in this troubled, homophobic nation.

May Charlie Brown, our little friend to all hetero-centered children,
suddenly acquire a new neighbor...a neighbor who is (dare we say it)
also gay...and proud of it!

We're here!  We're queer!  Good grief!"


P.S.: Anyone who'd like to embellish and/or polish up this speech,
please offer up your ideas. Full credit will be given to all
contributors...as long as I maintain recognition as the inventor of
this idea...in other words: respect my copyright. (Parodies, of
course, are a different story...have fun with that; I won't stand in
your way...it's against the law!)


---

"Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield,
 which I unwillingly left beside a bush.
 But I was saved; what do I care about that shield?
 Let it go, I'll get another no worse." 

   - Archilocus, 7th Century BC

---
My website kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/
GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com


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