MY GAY-RIGHTS CARTOON IS CHARGED WITH COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!
(newsgroup: alt.politics.homosexuality) -- PART 2 OF 4

======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:39:34 -0700 [[i thank charles schulz for his comic strip peanuts. i saw myself as a combination of all the characters and admired them for being the best they could be. at the time i was reading the whole collection of books in english and spanish, i had no idea i was gay. and when i heard about gay rights marches and anita bryant in the seventies, i couldn't comprehend what was going on at all. schulz did emphasize the tangible, such as adding black children to the experience and that made me feel that those of us who were not white could fit in with the rest of the world. >> Thanks, Orlando. This is exactly what I said from the very beginning of this thread. But Mr Krahlin has no time for this kind of personal anecdote. He is too busy tearing down others & spreading hate to care about such insignificant details. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:53:56 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:39:34 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >But Mr Krahlin has no time for this kind of personal anecdote. He is too >busy tearing down others & spreading hate to care about such insignificant >details. Sure I am. And a gay bear doesn't shit in the woods. --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:27:56 GMT On 3 Sep 1998 15:24:47 GMT, orlando@MyXgay-rig.killspam.us.com wrote: > >this whole thing about schulz being homophobic is pure bullshit >and your time could be better spent doing other productive things >for a lot of people. your asking for money for a cheap-parody >that says nothing is offensive and anyone sending you money is >out of their minds. > >orlando Perhaps better rephrased to -- "anyone sending you money is (also) out of their minds". ward ------------------------------------------------------------- The 1964 Civil Rights Act is "the single most dangerous piece of legislation ever introduced in the Congress" He later opposed a national holiday for that "pervert" Martin Luther King Jr. Who but? Jesse Helms ------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:56:59 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:27:56 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >Perhaps better rephrased to -- "anyone sending you money is (also) out >of their minds". I don't worship money; I'm a free spirit. --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 22:26:00 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:27:56 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >Perhaps better rephrased to -- "anyone sending you money is (also) out >of their minds". This is the third good idea you've given me, Wart! How could I ever repay you? I know: a vacation in Hawaii! Okay, now, to those who approve of my cause, and my political strategies, and want to lend a hand with financial support: Send money order or cash (no checks please, as I risk many homophobes sending me intentionally bad checks) to: Ezekiel J. Krahlin 584 Castro St., Suite 436 San Francisco, CA 94114 Or send material donations such as computer upgrades and other stuff I might think of later on. All monies/contributions will go directly into my gay rights cause in one way or another...and I will keep my contributions and expense record constantly updated, and made available to the public, on my web site. Not one penny will go towards "profit", or any other personal material gain. All contributors shall be given full credit for their donations...unless they request anonymity. I cannot accept anything that is C.O.D., or would cost me in any other manner. If you want your donation to go to something specific, please state in a letter to where you want it to go, such as: "computer equipment", "distribute to gay poor", "office expenses", for examples. If you do state a specific request as to how you want the donation spent, and I cannot agree to that request, I will immediately return said donation. If you trust me to handle all donations honestly, you can always make your request: "Ezekiel Krahlin's cause for gay rights", or just don't make any specific statement. A present need: an entire, new computer system, as this one is rather old, now. I'd prefer two identical hard drives...one for backup...rather than something like a "zip" drive, as they are not very good. Here's what I'd like in a new system: - decent SVGA monitor - 64 MB RAM - Sound Blaster sound card - decent speakers - two 3-gigabyte hard drives - CD-ROM or DVD drive - 56 kilobyte external modem - 300MHz CPU or faster - 4MB 3-D video card Anyone who may really be *serious about contributing a new computer system, please contact me first, as I know which brands are reliable and give you a lot of bang for the book...and which ones to avoid. Also, I need anyone who wants to support my Pee Nuts legal case, to send my material that will contribute to my defense. Photocopies of other examples of Sunday comics and cartoon parodies by Mad Magazine and other publications would be great. Anything else that comes to mind, too! Please note I cannot afford to reimburse anyone for cost of mailing copying, etc. I consider this a community effort, with me as the organizer. Up, up and away! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 9 Sep 1998 20:58:27 -0500 In article <35f6fc9d.5564723@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > - decent SVGA monitor > - 64 MB RAM > - Sound Blaster sound card > - decent speakers > - two 3-gigabyte hard drives > - CD-ROM or DVD drive > - 56 kilobyte external modem > - 300MHz CPU or faster > - 4MB 3-D video card I would recommend a Macintosh G3 system. Macintoshes give you much better "bang for the buck" than any PC and are much more reliable. Contrary to the prevailing myth, there is plenty of software available for the MacOS in all software categories. -Mike (stirring the pot) -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:12:06 GMT On 9 Sep 1998 20:58:27 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >I would recommend a Macintosh G3 system. Macintoshes give you much better >"bang for the buck" than any PC and are much more reliable. Contrary to >the prevailing myth, there is plenty of software available for the MacOS >in all software categories. Thanks for the tip...but my expertise is with IBM style clones...so I must stick with them. I have been working on IBM clones since 1984. For an OS I'd prefer Linux BSD, however. I boycott all Microsoft products...so the only thing left to get rid of is my Windoze 95 OS. But if someone *should donate a Mac G3, I will gladly accept, and become a Mac-Head for the first time in my life. However, I find upgrading and replacing parts much less expensive with PCs, and simpler...as Apple is really still a monopoly. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:55:41 +0000 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > I boycott all Microsoft > products...so the only thing left to get rid of is my Windoze 95 OS. I would too. Microsoft doesn't ship a *single* program with Win95 that is identifiably gay. -Bill ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:02:13 -0700 [[ Microsoft doesn't ship a *single* program with Win95 that is identifiably gay.>> You mean that little wavy cartoon that pops up in Windows 95 when you want to write a letter & asks you if you need help writing it ..... is NOT gay????? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:38:23 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > Thanks for the tip...but my expertise is with IBM style clones...so I > must stick with them. I have been working on IBM clones since 1984. > For an OS I'd prefer Linux BSD, however. I boycott all Microsoft > products...so the only thing left to get rid of is my Windoze 95 OS. Psssst. Zeke: Linux and BSD are two different OSs. Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:37:31 GMT On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:38:23 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: >> For an OS I'd prefer Linux BSD . . . >Psssst. Zeke: Linux and BSD are two different OSs. 'S'okay. You should have read his treatise on virii. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:30:42 GMT On 9 Sep 1998 20:58:27 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: > >I would recommend a Macintosh G3 system. Macintoshes give you much better >"bang for the buck" than any PC and are much more reliable. Contrary to >the prevailing myth, there is plenty of software available for the MacOS >in all software categories. > And since the Apple logo is derived from the rainbow flag they won't care if you make copies of it. Scruffy ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:18:28 GMT On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:30:42 GMT, scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles) wrote: >And since the Apple logo is derived from the rainbow flag they won't >care if you make copies of it. 'Scuse me, but, the rainbow flag could never be copyrighted in the first place, no matter Gilbert Baker's claim. The rainbow is such a common design, that one could not wrest if from public domain. Reminds me of a letter to the editor I wrote some years ago: -------------------------------------------------------------- Permission granted by author for anyone to distribute this writing free of charge (including translation into any language)...under condition that no profit is made therefrom, and that it remain intact and complete, including title and credit to the original author. Ezekiel J. Krahlin ezekielk@iname.com -------------------------------------------------------------- DOWN WITH THE RAINBOW FLAG © 1997 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin (Jehovah's Queer Witness) June 26, 1990 Dear Editor, I feel insulted and outraged (as if slapped in the face) by the S.F. Sentinel's article of June 25, 1990 (pg. 18), entitled "The Rainbow Flag: Symbol of Our Pride". If, in truth, our flag's origin comes from one Gilbert Baker just as he describes, then may God(dess) have mercy on our fag/dyke souls! Not only does this article offend my sensibilities as a Hellene, but likewise as an artist, for the following reasons: (1) Originality? The rainbow? Unless my memory fails me, the true author of the rainbow is Mother Nature Herself...whose bright iris peers down the tunnel of artistic history from its inception; long, long before the existence of Hellenic rights (and of humans, for that matter). The act of placing this rainbow on a rectangle of cloth is about as innovative as gluing a blade of grass on a postcard. Therefore, to be "original", an artist must incorporate the rainbow colors in a unique manner not yet done by either nature or artist...something our "artistic wizard" has failed to do. Besides, no talent whatsoever is required to paint, draw, or sew, six plain bars of color. Gilbert Baker made reference to the rainbow as an extension of the free speech movement, and (quote): "...a perfect reflection of Lesbian and Gay freedom, because the flag is the rainbow, and the rainbow is a very beautiful and magical part of nature". Gobbledy-gook, Mr. Baker, gobbledy-gook and hogwash. You can replace the rainbow with the butterfly, the flower, the horse, the sunrise, the snowflake, the ocean, or any other natural wonder, and say the same thing. The rainbow, in and of itself, has no immediate correlation with Gay rights, for it has been used throughout the ages as the backdrop for a myriad of themes and causes...starting, perhaps, with Noah's Ark (the most recent being Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition). In short: like the heart and the star, the rainbow has been overdone and overworked. (2) Add injury to insult: this celebrated "artiste" brags that substance abuse was the catalyst for his supposedly brilliant concept of inventing the rainbow! (I quote: "The idea...came to me during an acid trip".) Who needs an acid trip to imagine a rainbow? Who even needs an artist? Then he describes how his girlfriend, "Fairie", helped him dye the fabric for this remarkable flag, commenting that "...it was all a very organic experience". (Right, lady: as organic as a plastic rotten apple in Denmark!) So here we have this hippie-dippie couple--apparently heterosexual--dropping acid and probably laughing all the way to the bank, for pulling the rainbow-wool over the eyes of our Lesbian/Thracian community. This is the "father" of our flag? What sort of role model is this to pass on to our queer youth? (3) Perhaps Ms. 'Fairie' was Gilbert's girlfriend only in the platonic sense. However, the article gave no indication of that. Nor was there any evidence of Gilbert's achievements or sacrifices on behalf of same-sex civil rights...though he gives great lip service to the glory of Hellene people. In this--the hokiest news article I have ever read--I smell a rat in the form of a hidden agenda. I suspect Gilbert of riding the coattails of Hellenic rights in order to achieve fame and riches...based on eloquent praise and clever public relations. I also suspect Gay turncoats in positions of power who, for whatever ungoddessly reason, promoted Gilbert's design (which isn't even a design in any real sense)! (4) I have saved the worst for last. Gilbert said he did not copyright his rainbow design, as it is a gift of love, that all may freely partake of it. This is indeed the height of vanity...and absurdity. Since his design is merely a rainbow--and nothing more--there is no way he could ever copyright it. No one OWNS the rainbow, Gilbert, nor was it ever possible for you--or anyone else for that matter--to ever possess the rainbow as its sole proprietor. What a maroon! Our queer community takes pride in its artistic sensibilities and great tradition of a long line of the finest artists in history. Yet, we blandly accept (even praise) with open arms a heterosexual artist's plain and unoriginal rendering of six stripes of colors for our "glorious" flag! How could we have let ourselves be so badly duped? Who made this decision? Was there a vote? It seems to me that, something so important as our flag, should be created by a 100%, bona fide Hellene woman or man, whose qualifications include at least five year's active service to our cause, whether in private or public, behind the scenes or right up front. (Nor should she/he need to be an "artist" in the professional sense.) I thus propose a contest to replace our 6-color-bar flag with one that bespeaks genuine artistry...thereby reflecting some of the blood, sweat, and tears of our community's proud struggle towards the liberation of Lesbian/Thracian civil rights. The challenge would be to incorporate the rainbow colors within the flag itself, in a novel (not hackneyed) manner. Contestants must be true-blue Hellene all the way, enclosing (with their entry design) a minimum five-year record of his or her achievements on behalf of queer rights. (A possible variation on this contest would be to select four winning designs, as alternate flags for different Hellenic occasions or seasons.) Voting would be by popular ballot through the Hellene media, such as by newspaper, telephone, or Internet. Let's do it! Down with the old flag and up with the new! As far as Gilbert's milquetoast design goes (which is, unfortunately, our current flag), I am sick of it, and definitely have gotten "over the rainbow". Haven't you? -----finis --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:16:44 GMT On Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:18:28 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote: >On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:30:42 GMT, scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy >van Piebles) wrote: > >>And since the Apple logo is derived from the rainbow flag they won't >>care if you make copies of it. > >'Scuse me, but, the rainbow flag could never be copyrighted in the >first place, no matter Gilbert Baker's claim. The rainbow is such a >common design, that one could not wrest if from public domain. Reminds >me of a letter to the editor I wrote some years ago: > ZZZOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooommmmmmmm! Scruffy ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 05:25:14 GMT On Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:16:44 GMT, scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles) wrote: >>The rainbow is such a >>common design, that one could not wrest if from public domain. Reminds >>me of a letter to the editor I wrote some years ago: >> > >ZZZOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooommmmmmmm! Send me a postcard before you get back. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:53:52 GMT On 3 Sep 1998 15:24:47 GMT, orlando@MyXgay-rig.killspam.us.com wrote: >this whole thing about schulz being homophobic is pure bullshit >and your time could be better spent doing other productive things >for a lot of people. I never accussed Schulz of homophobia, per se. You should read the thread with a letter better scrutiny. >your asking for money for a cheap-parody that says nothing is >offensive and anyone sending you money is out of their minds. Judgment call! --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jim Drew Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:29:48 +0100 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > >this whole thing about schulz being homophobic is pure bullshit > >and your time could be better spent doing other productive things > >for a lot of people. > > I never accussed Schulz of homophobia, per se. You should read the > thread with a letter better scrutiny. That's right. Technically, you said "My creator is anti-gay..." And since *you're* the one who did up this "parody", I think that makes *you* the creator of it, no? Jim ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:57:12 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:29:48 +0100, Jim Drew wrote: >> I never accussed Schulz of homophobia, per se. You should read the >> thread with a letter better scrutiny. > >That's right. Technically, you said "My creator is anti-gay..." Uh-huh. Let's just say understanding comprehending multiple levels of meaning, as well as parody, are not your forte. >And since *you're* the one who did up this "parody", I think that makes >*you* the creator of it, no? I am the creator of the creator who creates me. No shit, Sherlock. TO MY LITTLE CHIPMUNK, RANDOLPH ============================== (c) 1998 by Ezekiel Krahlin I sing for Thou, and only Thou, my Dearest Little Chipmunk, my Light of Salvation, my Knight in Shining Armor, my Fountain of Joy, my Father! Builder of Dreams, is there not a single dream of mine that you won't fulfill? Architect of The Universe that I am, I nevertheless beg of you not to overestimate my skills, for I am still an apprentice! Thou dost honor me greatly beyond any dream I ever had, I know full well, but I beseech you to take a day off and get a rest, Good Man! And besides, I have been left alone to guard your house while you've been slaving away all day at the Factory! And a lonely heart is not what you want for me...I've only been trying to get that through your lovely, preoccupied head! Now, Randy, you do understand my situation, I am very certain! The Hour is Now, and the Time is Short, and I need to be in your arms before the curtain falls on this First Act! There is infinite strength, confidence, and joy from two Comrades in love, fighting Armageddon at each other's side! --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 05:56:01 +0000 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:29:48 +0100, Jim Drew > wrote: > > >> I never accussed Schulz of homophobia, per se. You should read the > >> thread with a letter better scrutiny. > > > >That's right. Technically, you said "My creator is anti-gay..." > > Uh-huh. Let's just say understanding comprehending multiple levels of > meaning, as well as parody, are not your forte. Nixon was a master of multiple levels of meaning. Of course, the public finally did tire of his bullshit lies (oops, I mean "layered meanings") and he had to leave office. Get the HINT, Zeke? -Bill ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:26:46 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 05:56:01 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >Nixon was a master of multiple levels of meaning. Of course, the public >finally did tire of his bullshit lies (oops, I mean "layered meanings") and >he had to leave office. Get the HINT, Zeke? Your implication of my getting your hint implies you are smarter than me; which you are not. How convenient of you to ignore all the great humans who were also masters of multiple meanings...writers, poets, playwrights, statesmen, philosophers, and so on. Just like any other tool, mastering multiple meanings can be used for either good or bad. Nixon, by the way, was not a master...he was a buffoon. But I'm sure *you find his dealings marvellously complex and subtle. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:30:20 -0700 [[How convenient of you to ignore all the great humans who were also masters of multiple meanings...writers, poets, playwrights, statesmen, philosophers, and so on.>> And of course Mr Krahlin monomaniacally counts himself among their number. He is not only a shaman & a savior, but also a statesman & a philosopher. Hallelujah. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:47:06 GMT On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:30:20 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >And of course Mr Krahlin monomaniacally counts himself among their number. He >is not only a shaman & a savior, but also a statesman & a philosopher. >Hallelujah. I acknowledge the shamanic and liberating potential in many gays and lesbians, not just in myself...which continues to be surpressed by the urbanized, queer power elite, and those who abide by it...such as yourself. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 07:16:25 GMT On 3 Sep 1998 15:24:47 GMT, orlando@MyXgay-rig.killspam.us.com wrote: >your asking for money for a cheap-parody that says nothing is >offensive and anyone sending you money is out of their minds. I really must correct you on this...as you, like so many vulgar entities who participate in this thread, intentionally distort anything I say, that would make me look bad. I am not asking for money, except under one condition: that is is used as a fund raiser for some lesbian or gay group or groups. And in that case, all I ask is 1%. You may consider my parody "cheap", that is your opinion...however, I think it is lower than cheap, lower than dirt, that our mainstream comics continue to exclude gays from this media. It's not just cheap, it's vulgar. So children grow up seeing gays as "other", "alien", "weird"...because, well, if gays were good people, of course they'd have seen them in comic strips. And since they're not...not a one...well, then faggots don't deserve to live in the *real world, too! --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:41:08 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 16:05:48 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > >> On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 12:41:14 +0000, Bill Lindemann >> wrote: >> >> >Charles Schultz has never addressed date rape is his cartoons either,but that >> >hardly qualifies him as a silent supporter of sexual abuse of >> >women. Ditto for other issues like drug use and child molesting. >> >> Did I ever suggest he should? Do you think being homosexual per se is >> pornographic? Thanks for nothing, then! You need to be defused of your >> homophobia. How dare you compare gay humanity with sexual violence! > >You deliberately misunderstand me, sir. I was comparing sexual >violence with anti-gay violence, by way of comparing Charles Schultz's >failure to address either in Peanuts. > >-Bill May I expect that you will be setting up a picket outside of the editorial offices of Popular Mechanics next week? Why not, they too have failed to address these important questions? ward > ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ "Love, like a mountain-wind upon an oak, Falling upon me, shakes me leaf and bough." Sappho of Lesbos ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:53:58 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:41:08 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >May I expect that you will be setting up a picket outside of the >editorial offices of Popular Mechanics next week? Why not, they too >have failed to address these important questions? An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that may be concealing a homophobic agenda. >~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ >"Love, like a mountain-wind upon an oak, >Falling upon me, shakes me leaf and bough." > Sappho of Lesbos >~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ Lovely quote. --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:26:54 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:41:08 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) > wrote: > > >May I expect that you will be setting up a picket outside of the > >editorial offices of Popular Mechanics next week? Why not, they too > >have failed to address these important questions? > > An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that > may be concealing a homophobic agenda. Sounds like a witch hunt. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:37:53 -0700 [[> An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that > may be concealing a homophobic agenda. Sounds like a witch hunt.>> He is on a witch hunt. He is judge, jury, executioner, God, you name it. Hey, angels talk to him. Why not? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:57:33 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:26:54 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >> An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that >> may be concealing a homophobic agenda. > >Sounds like a witch hunt. If you mean by that: the witches will do the hunting. I hope by now, you know which witch is which! --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 15:34:32 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:26:54 -0700, Jeffrey Croft > wrote: > > >> An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that > >> may be concealing a homophobic agenda. > > > >Sounds like a witch hunt. > > If you mean by that: the witches will do the hunting. I hope by now, > you know which witch is which! No, let me be more specific. You sound like McCarthy and his communist-hunters. When you say "we shall leave no stone unturned" you sound like you're about to ruin a whole bunch of innocent people's lives just to lend credence to your own delusion. Either that, or it's just a big power trip. Or both... Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:26:49 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 15:34:32 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >No, let me be more specific. You sound like McCarthy and his >communist-hunters. When you say "we shall leave no stone unturned" you >sound like you're about to ruin a whole bunch of innocent people's lives >just to lend credence to your own delusion. Either that, or it's just a >big power trip. Or both... You intentionally choose to interpret my humorous comments as lacking any levity...thus becomes an attempt to demonize me. You're a boor and a bore. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:31:31 -0700 [[You intentionally choose to interpret my humorous comments as lacking any levity.>> Mr Krahlin is too busy rallying the angels for his jihad to have anything remotely resembling a sense of humor. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:47:17 GMT On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:31:31 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >Mr Krahlin is too busy rallying the angels for his jihad to have anything >remotely resembling a sense of humor. It's not a jihad...in fact, it is diamettrically *opposite to one. You might call it an "anti-jihad"...an "anti-declaration of anti-war". In fact, I really conclude: Does it all really anti-matter? > You should change your name. "Frank" means honest. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 3 Sep 1998 21:07:05 -0500 In article <35ef1851.12580221@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:41:08 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) > wrote: > > >May I expect that you will be setting up a picket outside of the > >editorial offices of Popular Mechanics next week? Why not, they too > >have failed to address these important questions? > > An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that > may be concealing a homophobic agenda. Yeah, tell me about it. Their article on how to wire a ground-fault-interrupt bathroom outlet didn't mention ONE THING about gay rights! I must dash off an angry letter immediately! -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:57:39 GMT On 3 Sep 1998 21:07:05 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >Yeah, tell me about it. Their article on how to wire a >ground-fault-interrupt bathroom outlet didn't mention ONE THING about gay >rights! I must dash off an angry letter immediately! Why don't you round up the whole posse? --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 18:13:06 GMT On 3 Sep 1998 21:07:05 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >In article <35ef1851.12580221@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, >ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > >> On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:41:08 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) >> wrote: >> >> >May I expect that you will be setting up a picket outside of the >> >editorial offices of Popular Mechanics next week? Why not, they too >> >have failed to address these important questions? >> >> An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that >> may be concealing a homophobic agenda. > >Yeah, tell me about it. Their article on how to wire a >ground-fault-interrupt bathroom outlet didn't mention ONE THING about gay >rights! I must dash off an angry letter immediately! Things have gone too far for that -- it is part of an gigantic conspiracy, Popular Science has joined them along with "Aquarium Journal." There is no limit to their terrible agenda -- the only possible action is to set fire to their offices. Surely, by this time, you have noted that Radio Shack is in on the plot to suppress the noble Thracians. Next time you go in give them the wrong telephone number and bollix their computer -- VENGEANCE shall be ours! You man the barricades and I'll head for the Finland Station. Comrade ward ----------------------------------------------------- "They have to convert our agenda into something aggressive. Two guys wanting to be happy together are invading their marriages. Helping a kid who's getting beaten up in school is promoting homosexuality. If you gave me a million dollars, I wouldn't know how to promote homosexuality. Do I hire Don King?" Barney Frank ----------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:26:52 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 18:13:06 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >possible action is to set fire to their offices. Surely, by this >time, you have noted that Radio Shack is in on the plot to suppress >the noble Thracians. Next time you go in give them the wrong >telephone number and bollix their computer -- VENGEANCE shall be ours! No self-respecting Thracian would ever set foot in a Radio Shack. He'd use a black box, instead. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:29:24 -0700 In article <35ef1851.12580221@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >>May I expect that you will be setting up a picket outside of the >>editorial offices of Popular Mechanics next week? Why not, they too >>have failed to address these important questions? > >An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that >may be concealing a homophobic agenda. I really, really do hope that you're being sarcastic. --Michelle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:57:46 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:29:24 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >>An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that >>may be concealing a homophobic agenda. > > I really, really do hope that you're being sarcastic. Just spastic. Perhaps elastic. Or maybe plastic. Could be gastric. Or wishing I were in Maastricht. --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:32:49 -0700 In article <35efbdde.24917158@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:29:24 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle >Steiner) wrote: > >>>An idea whose time has come! We shall leave no stone unturned, that >>>may be concealing a homophobic agenda. >> >> I really, really do hope that you're being sarcastic. > >Just spastic. Perhaps elastic. Or maybe plastic. Could be gastric. > >Or wishing I were in Maastricht. That's fantastic. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:26:59 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:32:49 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >>> I really, really do hope that you're being sarcastic. >> >>Just spastic. Perhaps elastic. Or maybe plastic. Could be gastric. >> >>Or wishing I were in Maastricht. > >That's fantastic. But not too drastic. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jim Drew Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 23:47:03 +0100 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > > Did I ever suggest he should? Do you think being homosexual per se is > pornographic? Thanks for nothing, then! You need to be defused of your > homophobia. How dare you compare gay humanity with sexual violence! Ah, our old friend: "You're opposed to my claims of homophobia, so you must have interlaized homophobia yourself." Next thing you know, Ezekiel here will be comparing some of us to Hitler (and thus invoking the old Usenet saw on that topic). Jim ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:53:47 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 23:47:03 +0100, Jim Drew wrote: >Ah, our old friend: "You're opposed to my claims of homophobia, so you must have >interlaized homophobia yourself." When someone equates bringing up the topic of homosexuality, to issues of pornography and violence, I'd say s/he is homophobic. This is just like the religious reich's tactic...who would also throw in bestiality. > Next thing you know, Ezekiel here will be >comparing some of us to Hitler (and thus invoking the old Usenet saw on that >topic). If the swastika fits... --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 19:26:34 -0700 In article <35edba01.15716450@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 12:41:14 +0000, Bill Lindemann >wrote: > >>Charles Schultz has never addressed date rape is his cartoons either,but that >>hardly qualifies him as a silent supporter of sexual abuse of >>women. Ditto for other issues like drug use and child molesting. > >Did I ever suggest he should? Do you think being homosexual per se is >pornographic? Thanks for nothing, then! You need to be defused of your >homophobia. How dare you compare gay humanity with sexual violence! He didn't! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 00:44:04 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 12:41:14 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: >> I think if Mr. Schulz were a friend, we'd have know by now. Any author >> who does not include the gay issue from time to time, is fair game. >> Silence = death. >Charles Schultz has never addressed date rape is his cartoons either,but that >hardly qualifies him as a silent supporter of sexual abuse of >women. Ditto for other issues like drug use and child molesting. Well said. < snip > >> "Passive homophobia" is far more common than "active"...as it is much >> easier to get away with, and no one can really prove it with direct >> evidence. Schulz, to the best of my knowledge, qualifies as "passive". >> I don't know any mainstream comic that could be considered "active". >B.C. comes damn close, with his lead character (name, anyone?) reeling >off sermons that take up a whole Sunday comic. Wiley, I think his name is. >While I can't remember >him specifically targetting gays, he has made oblique references using >labels like (and this is admittedly a paraphrase of the original) "new social >values", "permissiveness", etc. And his sermons clearly come from a >fundamentalist Christian direction. J. Hart has stated in interviews that his strips are meant to be his work of the Lord, and he will use his cartooning skills to "do God's work". ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 14:59:08 +0300 Bill Lindemann wrote: > Hmm... If you still want to be in-your-face, how > about penning a takeoff called "Family Jerkoff"? > > -Bill How about "Family Circle-jerk"? ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:35:56 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 14:59:08 +0300, Nicole Lasher wrote: >> Hmm... If you still want to be in-your-face, how >> about penning a takeoff called "Family Jerkoff"? >> >> -Bill > >How about "Family Circle-jerk"? They really are pap, and deserve to be parodied. I will eventually get around to them. Have you seen my Beetle Bailey and Cathy parodies yet? I'm sure you'll get some chuckles out of 'em. The Lesbian/Thracian Sunday Comics http://members.tripod.com/~ezekielk/ I want to add here: if anyone in the gay community cares to, she or he can do their own comic parody, which I will add to my gay comics parody...giving that person complete credit and copyright respect. Here is another example where I offer a project for the gay community at large. I think it would be absolutely terrific, to have a huge anthology of gay sunday comics on a web site! Can you imagine all the controversy and lawsuits this would ensue? And how much we could sue these arrogant bullies...contributing a chunk of these victory spoils to gay civil rights? --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 2 Sep 1998 15:04:01 -0500 In article <35ed8f36.4759658@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 14:59:08 +0300, Nicole Lasher > wrote: > > >> Hmm... If you still want to be in-your-face, how > >> about penning a takeoff called "Family Jerkoff"? > >> > >> -Bill > > > >How about "Family Circle-jerk"? > > They really are pap, and deserve to be parodied. Has anyone seen the Family Circus parody which was on the web a few years back. Basically some guy posted Family Circus cartoons absent the caption, and viewers made up their own captions. Thes best 10 or so were then made available to everyone. More often then not these wrre hilarious! -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:45:49 -0700 In article <35ed8f36.4759658@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >They really are pap, and deserve to be parodied. I will eventually get >around to them. Have you seen my Beetle Bailey and Cathy parodies yet? >I'm sure you'll get some chuckles out of 'em. They are cute and funny. The Peenuts one isn't; it is heterophobic. None of your parodies had any identifiable people of color, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, transgenders, etc. By your own reasoning that means that you're racist, hate minority religions, are transphobic, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 02:05:26 GMT On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:45:49 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >None of your parodies had any identifiable people of color, Jews, Muslims, >Hindus, transgenders, etc. By your own reasoning that means that you're >racist, hate minority religions, are transphobic, etc. Not to mention the fact that he's _sick_. Have you seen his "baby Jesus" animated .gif? Baby Jesus, in a jumper, tongue hanging out and apparently salivating, sitting on the lap (left knee, actually) of the brawny, hairy PaDonna, thinking "Where's the beef?" He gropes down and to his right with his hand, thinks "Here", and the PaDonna winks. I'm sorry, but I'm not even Christian and I think that's beyond the pale. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 08:50:56 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 02:05:26 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) wrote: >Baby Jesus, in a jumper, tongue hanging out and apparently salivating, >sitting on the lap (left knee, actually) of the brawny, hairy PaDonna, >thinking "Where's the beef?" He gropes down and to his right with his >hand, thinks "Here", and the PaDonna winks. Well, I'm parodying homophobes' fears of gays, who they think are pedophiliac. I'm also parodying Jesus as God's son, and they're both gay! So I decided to manifest their fears before their eyes. God and His Son freaking them out. You'll also enjoy: Jesus on the Okra Winfree Show http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/write/okra.htm (No doubt brainless Michelle will now accuse me of racism, by parodying Oprah Winfrey's name.) >I'm sorry, but I'm not even Christian and I think that's beyond the >pale. You poor, humorless dried out husk of a human being. You *should be a KKKristian with that attitude! Do you realize that I'm Christian? --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 05:42:21 +0000 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > >I'm sorry, but I'm not even Christian and I think that's beyond the > >pale. > > You poor, humorless dried out husk of a human being. You *should be a > KKKristian with that attitude! Do you realize that I'm Christian? You know, Zeke, I don't trust gays who claim they are Christian. All that internalized homophobia that the religion inculcates, dontcha know! Some Xtian gays say you should trust them, don't be put off by their Christianity, but you know what, when the ax first came into the forest the trees said "the handle is one of us". -Bill (sticking tongue in cheek with this post ... but NOT is Zeke's cheeks!) ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:54:04 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 05:42:21 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >You know, Zeke, I don't trust gays who claim they are Christian. All >that internalized homophobia that the religion inculcates, dontcha know! I was raised as a Christian...that makes me Christian. I have no qualms about parodying Christianity...nor would I be against outlawing all churches that preach homophobia, as well as any other bigotry. Furthermore, I don't attend any church, for I have not found one that practices the golden rule as Christ taught it. I am a renegade Christian. And it thrills me no end to declare myself Christian, as well as gay, before these bible thumpers...for they do not want to hear that...especially coming from one who speaks blasphemy from their prejudiced point of view. It is an unpardonable sin that our courts have *not challenged these right-wing churches regarding their gay hatred. They should be dragged before jurors, and told to prove to them, where in either bible, it says that gays should be villified, or even regarded as sinful. There is no clear cite that exists. As Amerikan courts demand substantial proof in all cases being tried for dubious dogma...it would be a simple process to challenge our homophobic Christian organizations. That fact this has *not been done, only indicates how polluted our legal system has become, with the same KKKristian Kreeps who espouse gay hatred. Amerika has failed in keeping church separate from state. --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 06:06:06 +0000 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > It is an unpardonable sin that our courts have *not challenged these > right-wing churches regarding their gay hatred. They should be dragged > before jurors, and told to prove to them, where in either bible, it > says that gays should be villified, or even regarded as sinful. There > is no clear cite that exists. In a pig's eye! Their book says, clearly and unambiguously, that we are an abomination and should be killed. That's why I steer clear of any part of their religion. -Bill ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 23:51:09 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 06:06:06 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > >> It is an unpardonable sin that our courts have *not challenged these >> right-wing churches regarding their gay hatred. They should be dragged >> before jurors, and told to prove to them, where in either bible, it >> says that gays should be villified, or even regarded as sinful. There >> is no clear cite that exists. > >In a pig's eye! Their book says, clearly and unambiguously, that >we are an abomination and should be killed. That's why I steer >clear of any part of their religion. > >-Bill > Interesting (slightly) that Zeke, in his excitement, would propose having the government pass on what is and what is not appropriate content for religious convictions. Even in his imaginary "AmeriKa" this is unlikely to happen. Interesting further that one who so passionately advocates (he thinks) for the bill of rights and the constitutional protections for ALL the citizens would so casually jettison the separation of church and state. ward *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "The default condition for a citizen in our republic is that in any harmless matter he is FREE to act as he will. He is NOT to be restricted by prejudices and animosity amongst his neighbors -- if THEY wish to restrain him from his freedom, THEY must demonstrate the public interest in so restricting him." Uncle Ward *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:14 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 23:51:09 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: > Interesting further that one who so >passionately advocates (he thinks) for the bill of rights and the >constitutional protections for ALL the citizens would so casually >jettison the separation of church and state. You rarely make much sense, Wart...and this, your latest comment, is no exception. My proposal to challenge all homophobic churches to specifically cite the Bible for proof that homosexuality is a sin...will lead to their demise, for lack of substantial evidence. And why hasn't our legal system taken up this very easy task? Because it has failed to truly separate church from state...and challenging KKKrisitian bible thumpers in this way, would vastly weaken any reason they perceive as God's will, to persecute gays. It would then lead to the outlawing and shutting down of anti-gay churches. This is an obvious answer to get a big part of the church out of what belongs to the state. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: scruffythecat@geocities.com (Scruffy van Piebles) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 17:14:31 GMT On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 05:39:35 -0700, desalvo@monitor.net (John De Salvio) wrote: >[...] > >Leviticus declares certain sexual practices as an "abomination" -- a word >that is more clearly understood as to mean "distasteful," not as "sin." > I'm not buying this, John. God would not demand the death penalty over a difference of taste! That would be as ridiculous as God demanding that we wear clothes with a certain color thread in them or cut our hair a certain way or . . . er, never mind. Scruffy ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 5 Sep 1998 14:47:28 -0500 In article <35F0A3C0.E69A1893@ix.netcom.com>, Bill Lindemann wrote: > Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > > > You rarely make much sense, Wart...and this, your latest comment, is > > no exception. My proposal to challenge all homophobic churches to > > specifically cite the Bible for proof that homosexuality is a > > sin...will lead to their demise, for lack of substantial evidence. > > Ever read Leviticus, Zeke? It can be legitimately argued that there is nothing in the Bible (old or new testament) which condemns homosexuality as we understand it today. -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:47:43 GMT On 5 Sep 1998 14:47:28 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >> Ever read Leviticus, Zeke? > >It can be legitimately argued that there is nothing in the Bible (old or >new testament) which condemns homosexuality as we understand it today. Thank you, Mike. I have already referred anyone who questions this, to one of the best documents that blows to smithereens all homophobic justifications for using the Bible to preach that gays are sinful and should be annihilated. Once more, here it is: http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Stonewall/8944/dave.htm I am proud to claim this author's outstanding work as being showcased on one of my websites. To my knowledge, no one else has done so...though I encourage everyone *to do so! And this is why (as I have said already), it will be no difficult thing for the government to challenge this issue in court...thus putting an end to the right wing's churches. They would be outlawed! And the fact this has not yet been done, only speaks too loudly as to how extensive is gay-hatred in our nation...for it swells far beyond the crowds of the religious reich, and poisons the ranks of even many liberal establishments. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:58:08 -0700 In article <35f1b8c3.5326659@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >And this is why (as I have said already), it will be no difficult >thing for the government to challenge this issue in court...thus >putting an end to the right wing's churches. They would be outlawed! For the government to put an end to any church or religion would spell the end of religious freedom in the United States. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:36:33 +0200 Michelle Steiner wrote: > For the government to put an end to any church or religion would spell the > end of religious freedom in the United States. In case you haven't noticed, they already have. A person is free to believe anything they want, but when that religion crosses the line to "inciting violence", its beliefs become illegal to perpetuate. The Davidians, the Aryan Nation, and many other religious/activist/possibly terrost groups have already had a taste of the U.S. government's idea of "freedom of religion". The Baptists and others should be held to the same level of accountability. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. For awhile, the country seemed to understand that, but it is forgetting, and will continue to forget it until they are reminded. ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:41:10 -0700 In article <35F2BA11.3677BB2C@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >> For the government to put an end to any church or religion would spell the >> end of religious freedom in the United States. > >In case you haven't noticed, they already have. I've noticed, and they haven't. >A person is free to believe anything they want, but when that religion crosses >the line to "inciting violence", its beliefs become illegal to perpetuate. >The Davidians, Allegedly had illegal weapons on their compound. It had nothing directly to do with religion. >the Aryan Nation, Is not a religion, nor a religious organization. >and many other religious/activist/possibly >terrost groups have already had a taste of the U.S. government's idea of >"freedom of religion". The Baptists and others should be held to the same >level of accountability. They are being held to it. >Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. For awhile, the country >seemed to understand that, but it is forgetting, and will continue to forget it >until they are reminded. No, it is still not forgetting. The government has not yet approved any religions in deference to any others. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: joshua geller Date: 06 Sep 1998 12:13:02 -0700 michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: > In article <35F2BA11.3677BB2C@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > wrote: > >A person is free to believe anything they want, but when that > >religion crosses the line to "inciting violence", its beliefs > >become illegal to perpetuate. The Davidians, > Allegedly had illegal weapons on their compound. Dear Michelle, The concept of "illegal weapons" is un-American. Most other legal systems in the world do support such a concept; there are weapons that only the authorized agents of the government are allowed to have. > It had nothing directly > to do with religion. This is not true. > >the Aryan Nation, > Is not a religion, nor a religious organization. Hmm. It has religious aspects to it. More importantly, neonazi types have (as the Davidians did not) actively engaged in violent and antisocial behavior. It is important to differentiate political activities (ie, bombings and assasinations) from religious ideas (ie, the belief that the Jews are the spawn of Satan and responsible for all of the Evil in the world) no matter how distasteful you or I might find these specific religious ideas. Best to you, now as always. Most sincerely, josh ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:03:20 -0700 In article , joshua geller wrote: >The concept of "illegal weapons" is un-American. So, you believe that every American has the right to own any weapon he or she wants--even bazookas, LAWs, Rocket Propelled Grenades, hand grenades, etc.? >> >the Aryan Nation, > >> Is not a religion, nor a religious organization. > >Hmm. It has religious aspects to it. So? >More importantly, neonazi types >have (as the Davidians did not) actively engaged in violent and >antisocial behavior. It is important to differentiate political >activities (ie, bombings and assasinations) from religious ideas (ie, >the belief that the Jews are the spawn of Satan and responsible for >all of the Evil in the world) no matter how distasteful you or I might >find these specific religious ideas. I agree. That's why I say that shutting down churches because some of their adherants engage in violence is not a good idea. --Michelle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: "James Doemer" Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 17:48:49 -0400 Michelle Steiner wrote in message ... >In article , joshua geller > wrote: > >>The concept of "illegal weapons" is un-American. > >So, you believe that every American has the right to own any weapon he or >she wants--even bazookas, LAWs, Rocket Propelled Grenades, hand grenades, >etc.? Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such weapons.. Takes a bunch of of permits though. > >>> >the Aryan Nation, >> >>> Is not a religion, nor a religious organization. >> >>Hmm. It has religious aspects to it. > >So? > >>More importantly, neonazi types >>have (as the Davidians did not) actively engaged in violent and >>antisocial behavior. It is important to differentiate political >>activities (ie, bombings and assasinations) from religious ideas (ie, >>the belief that the Jews are the spawn of Satan and responsible for >>all of the Evil in the world) no matter how distasteful you or I might >>find these specific religious ideas. > >I agree. That's why I say that shutting down churches because some of >their adherants engage in violence is not a good idea. > >--Michelle > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >| Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | >| michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | >---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:58:00 -0700 In article <35f302c8.0@news.provide.net>, "James Doemer" wrote: >>So, you believe that every American has the right to own any weapon he or >>she wants--even bazookas, LAWs, Rocket Propelled Grenades, hand grenades, >>etc.? > >Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such weapons.. Why do you hate to break it to me? >Takes a bunch of of permits though. So? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: "James Doemer" Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 19:16:34 -0400 Michelle Steiner wrote in message ... >In article <35f302c8.0@news.provide.net>, "James Doemer" > wrote: > >>>So, you believe that every American has the right to own any weapon he or >>>she wants--even bazookas, LAWs, Rocket Propelled Grenades, hand grenades, >>>etc.? >> >>Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such weapons.. > >Why do you hate to break it to me? You seem displeased with the fact that Americans do have such rights... > >>Takes a bunch of of permits though. > >So? > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >| Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | >| michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | >---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 17:45:38 -0700 In article <35f3175b.0@news.provide.net>, "James Doemer" wrote: >Michelle Steiner wrote in message ... >>In article <35f302c8.0@news.provide.net>, "James Doemer" >> wrote: >> >>>>So, you believe that every American has the right to own any weapon he or >>>>she wants--even bazookas, LAWs, Rocket Propelled Grenades, hand grenades, >>>>etc.? >>> >>>Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such >weapons.. >> >>Why do you hate to break it to me? > >You seem displeased with the fact that Americans do have such rights... Nope, not at all. I do think that not everyone should be able to own a hand grenade or bazooka, though; just those who show that they can be responsible with them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 23:26:14 GMT On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 17:48:49 -0400, "James Doemer" wrote: >Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such weapons.. >Takes a bunch of of permits though. Hey, tough talker, gay-friendly hetero: So why'nt you reply to my suggestion that you send a letter to the editor to major newspapers in your region...requesting they include a gay comic strip in the daily and Sunday comics? Did you conveniently bypass that post? --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: "James Doemer" Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:16:04 -0400 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote in message <35f318a7.20155530@nntp.sj.bigger.net>... >On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 17:48:49 -0400, "James Doemer" >wrote: > >>Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such weapons.. >>Takes a bunch of of permits though. > >Hey, tough talker, gay-friendly hetero: So why'nt you reply to my >suggestion that you send a letter to the editor to major newspapers in >your region...requesting they include a gay comic strip in the daily >and Sunday comics? Did you conveniently bypass that post? > > A.. When have I ever come off as a "tough talker"? B.. I didn't see your suggestion, the news server that my ISP uses isn't as reliable as I'd like.. It works fine for awhile, then sometimes it sends my messages into the unknown ether, and/or doesn't pick up some messages. My ISP says he is trying to track down the problem. However, the last week and a half has been sporatic at best as far as news posts. C..I will consider sending such a letter, perhaps you would E-mail me a sample of such a strip to include in my letter. I will send a letter to the Detroit News & Ann Arbor News, the two major papers in my area. D..The appropriate contraction to "why'nt" is "why didn't".. Not relevant, but clears up your meaning a bit. E..You seem to be directing a great deal of anger towards me here, is there some other problem between us?? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 08:33:14 GMT On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:16:04 -0400, "James Doemer" wrote: >A.. When have I ever come off as a "tough talker"? In your message to which I commented. >C..I will consider sending such a letter, perhaps you would > E-mail me a sample of such a strip to include in my letter. > I will send a letter to the Detroit News & Ann Arbor News, > the two major papers in my area. Excellent! Thanks much. You should have access to gay material via your friends? Check with them, for a list of several names of cartoonists. Or have someone else in this thread give you a list. Remember, I am busy with the Schulz issue, and can't be detracted too much from this, for the time being. One gay comic strip has already been mentioned by M. Silverman: "The Mostly Unfabulous Life of Ethan Greene." >E..You seem to be directing a great deal of anger towards > me here, Wrong. If you consider this a great deal of anger, then how do you handle a simple "No" without falling to pieces? >is there some other problem between us?? Nope. Other than your slow perception of gay politics. I get very tired of heteros who claim to be gay-friendly...yet they still don't read any gay newspapers, or even know how to get one, when they need to refer to something in it. This is just one example of hets who claim to be gay friendly...yet remain blissfully ignorant of many basic issues that gay people have to deal with. You have gay friends, don't you...so ask them for the material, not me, who lives 2,000 miles away! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: "James Doemer" Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:44:54 -0400 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote in message <35f3944a.12045427@nntp.sj.bigger.net>... >On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:16:04 -0400, "James Doemer" >wrote: > >>A.. When have I ever come off as a "tough talker"? > >In your message to which I commented. In what way?? It was a statement of fact only... > >>C..I will consider sending such a letter, perhaps you would >> E-mail me a sample of such a strip to include in my letter. >> I will send a letter to the Detroit News & Ann Arbor News, >> the two major papers in my area. > >Excellent! Thanks much. You should have access to gay material via >your friends? Check with them, for a list of several names of >cartoonists. Or have someone else in this thread give you a list. >Remember, I am busy with the Schulz issue, and can't be detracted too >much from this, for the time being. One gay comic strip has already >been mentioned by M. Silverman: "The Mostly Unfabulous Life of Ethan >Greene." > >>E..You seem to be directing a great deal of anger towards >> me here, > >Wrong. If you consider this a great deal of anger, then how do you >handle a simple "No" without falling to pieces? > A simple no is not what you posted.. Of course you conveinently snipped that part of the post and, as your pattern, refused to answer the question. When someone starts a post, "Ok Mr. Tough Talker..." it bespeaks of some pent up hostility. You also conveinently snipped the reasons I didn't respond to your previous request, without addressing them. Mr. Krahlin, these are not the actions of a warrior, or a person with honor. If you have the time to tear yourself from the Schulz issue long enough to answer this post, then you should have enough time to cut & paste an example of what you wish me to endorse in an e-mail. >>is there some other problem between us?? > >Nope. Other than your slow perception of gay politics. As I've stated before, I am in a learning mode on these issues, if I'm not learning fast enough for you, and you have a problem with it, then it's your problem. >I get very tired of heteros who claim to be gay-friendly...yet they >still don't read any gay newspapers, or even know how to get one, when >they need to refer to something in it. So, if I don't act in the exact manner you subscribe, read gay newspapers, or even care to, then I'm not gay supportive...? I don't need to refer to anything in it, I don't need to send this letter. I never claimed to have thrown myself headlong into the gay cause. I do what I can, when I can. If that's not good enough for you, tough. >This is just one example of >hets who claim to be gay friendly...yet remain blissfully ignorant of >many basic issues that gay people have to deal with. You have gay >friends, don't you...so ask them for the material, not me, who lives >2,000 miles away! You want the letter sent, you asked me to specifically endorse something you felt was important, then you provide the material. Of the 5 gays I asked, 4 of them said, "Ethan who?" , the other said, "Yeah, I've read it, it's not funny..." I also read it and found it mostly humorless. Perhaps you have a better example? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:27:23 GMT On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:44:54 -0400, "James Doemer" wrote: >A simple no is not what you posted.. Of course you conveinently snipped >that part of the post and, as your pattern, refused to answer the question. >When someone starts a post, "Ok Mr. Tough Talker..." it bespeaks of some >pent up hostility. Thou doth protesteth too much! >You also conveinently snipped the reasons I didn't >respond to your previous request, without addressing them. No need to repeat what has already been said. >Mr. Krahlin, these are not the actions of a warrior, or a person with honor. Your judgment is dubious. >If you have the time to tear yourself from the Schulz issue long enough >to answer this post, Barely. >then you should have enough time to cut & paste an example of what >you wish me to endorse in an e-mail. The buck stops with James Doemer. >As I've stated before, I am in a learning mode on these issues, if I'm >not learning fast enough for you, and you have a problem with it, then >it's your problem. And a blah, blah, blah, to you, sir! >So, if I don't act in the exact manner you subscribe, read gay newspapers, >or even care to, then I'm not gay supportive...? Go figure. >You want the letter sent, you asked me to specifically endorse something >you felt was important, then you provide the material. Of the 5 gays I >asked, 4 of them said, "Ethan who?" , the other said, "Yeah, I've read it, >it's not funny..." I also read it and found it mostly humorless. >Perhaps you have a better example? Is that the *only gay comic your five gay friends know of? I do suggest you own up to your responsiblity in this matter. I am not guilty for your own shortcomings. For shame, for shame, for HETERO shame! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: "James Doemer" Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:43:55 -0400 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote in message <35f4450d.7289519@nntp.sj.bigger.net>... >On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:44:54 -0400, "James Doemer" >wrote: > >>A simple no is not what you posted.. Of course you conveinently snipped >>that part of the post and, as your pattern, refused to answer the question. >>When someone starts a post, "Ok Mr. Tough Talker..." it bespeaks of some >>pent up hostility. > >Thou doth protesteth too much! Whatever... Failure to address the issue noted.. > >>You also conveinently snipped the reasons I didn't >>respond to your previous request, without addressing them. > >No need to repeat what has already been said. > Especially when you're in the wrong... Failure to address the issue noted. >>Mr. Krahlin, these are not the actions of a warrior, or a person with honor. > >Your judgment is dubious. Especially when you're in the wrong... Failure to address the issue noted. > >>If you have the time to tear yourself from the Schulz issue long enough >>to answer this post, > >Barely. > Yet the time exists. >>then you should have enough time to cut & paste an example of what >>you wish me to endorse in an e-mail. > >The buck stops with James Doemer. > Asking for a buck would be copyright infringement.. You wish it endorsed, then I need to see a specific example. >>As I've stated before, I am in a learning mode on these issues, if I'm >>not learning fast enough for you, and you have a problem with it, then >>it's your problem. > >And a blah, blah, blah, to you, sir! > Good, intelligent, mature... >>So, if I don't act in the exact manner you subscribe, read gay newspapers, >>or even care to, then I'm not gay supportive...? > >Go figure. > Hit the bottom of a dry well today Ezekial? >>You want the letter sent, you asked me to specifically endorse something >>you felt was important, then you provide the material. Of the 5 gays I >>asked, 4 of them said, "Ethan who?" , the other said, "Yeah, I've read it, >>it's not funny..." I also read it and found it mostly humorless. >>Perhaps you have a better example? > >Is that the *only gay comic your five gay friends know of? It seems so..... Other than the gay neighbor portrayed in "The Fabulously Furry Freak Brothers" , some years ago... But I don't think that counts, it was a pretty negative portrayal. >I do >suggest you own up to your responsiblity in this matter. I am not >guilty for your own shortcomings. And I am not responsible for your wants sir. My "shortcomings", in this life are numerous, and I quickly pony up and admit them, and display them for all to see. You on the other hand have a huge problem with self inspection. I have no responsibility in this matter. I have sworn no allegiance to you, or your cause. In short, I owe you nothing save the same respect that I owe to any other person on the planet, and that I expect in return. If you wish me to endorse something, I need to see a specific example of that something. This is not a difficult concept. > >For shame, for shame, for HETERO shame! > > Why do you have such a desire to see me shamed?? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:40:24 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 17:48:49 -0400, "James Doemer" > wrote: > > >Hate to break it too ya, but numerous American's already own such weapons.. > >Takes a bunch of of permits though. > > Hey, tough talker, gay-friendly hetero: So why'nt you reply to my > suggestion that you send a letter to the editor to major newspapers in > your region...requesting they include a gay comic strip in the daily > and Sunday comics? Did you conveniently bypass that post? Are you feeling ignored? Poor baby... Everyone pay attention to Zeke now! He needs it. Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 11:53:43 GMT michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >In article <35F2BA11.3677BB2C@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > wrote: >>> For the government to put an end to any church or religion would spell the >>> end of religious freedom in the United States. >> >>In case you haven't noticed, they already have. >I've noticed, and they haven't. They most certainl have. The State of California put an end to The Church of the Most High Goddess by imprisoning its leader and founder, High Priestess Sabrina Aset. john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jtem@tiac.net (JTEM) Date: 16 Sep 1998 03:22:43 GMT Fred Cherry (john1@world.std.com) wrote: [--absolutely nothing--] abuse@world.std.com billing@world.std.com bzs@world.std.com netadmin@world.std.com postmaster@world.std.com root@world.std.com staff@world.std.com support@world.std.com webmaster@world.std.com -- JTEM@SUNSPOT.TIAC.NET ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:39:38 +0200 Ward Stewart wrote: > You just don't get it do you Michelle -- some religions are naughty > and some religions are nice and in Thrace, Zeke will decide who is > who, he's got a little list! > > ward So what you're saying is that you wouldn't disapprove of the Aryan Nation actively recruiting in your neighborhood? How about an angry hoarde of Baptists trying to save you from the "curse of homosexuality" on a daily basis? How much of that do you think you could take before making a list of your own? ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:46:27 -0700 In article <35F2BACA.6C2BE06E@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: > > >Ward Stewart wrote: > >> You just don't get it do you Michelle -- some religions are naughty >> and some religions are nice and in Thrace, Zeke will decide who is >> who, he's got a little list! >> >> ward > >So what you're saying is that you wouldn't disapprove of the Aryan Nation >actively recruiting in your neighborhood? The Aryan Nation is not a religion; it is simply a hate group, like the Klan, the American Nazi Party, or Operation Rescue. >How about an angry hoarde of >Baptists trying to save you from the "curse of homosexuality" on a daily >basis? How much of that do you think you could take before making a list of >your own? It depends on how they go about doing it. The point is that they have a right to express their opinions, no matter how distasteful those opinions might be, so long as they do not incite violence or any other form of law breaking. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:51:46 +0200 Michelle Steiner wrote: > The Aryan Nation is not a religion; it is simply a hate group, like the > Klan, the American Nazi Party, or Operation Rescue. Oh dear... Hon, in a small (but growing) town, in Moscow Idaho, there is a church... I hate to break this to you, but the Aryan Nation, as opposed to the American Nazi Party, is indeed based on the Aryan Church, b.k.a. Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. You can visit their website at http://www.nidlink.com/~aryanvic/index-E-Links.html if you don't believe me. They are pretty fluid, and change tactics and names every so often, but it's the same people. They are in no way "simply a hate group" as few organizations are ever simply hate groups. Their hate is usually based on something they consider to be logical. In this case, it's a hatred towards anyone not of the "master race" based on their interpretation of the bible. > >How about an angry hoarde of > >Baptists trying to save you from the "curse of homosexuality" on a daily > >basis? How much of that do you think you could take before making a list of > >your own? > > It depends on how they go about doing it. The point is that they have a > right to express their opinions, no matter how distasteful those opinions > might be, so long as they do not incite violence or any other form of law > breaking. Yes, but freedoms of speech isn't isolated to them. It is for us too. If they have a right to spew their garbage, we have an equal right to refute it. Their rights end where our rights begin, and vise versa...only problem is that they seem to have this bad habit of overstepping their boundaries...They DO incite violence, and break the law. ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:00:13 -0700 In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >> The Aryan Nation is not a religion; it is simply a hate group, like the >> Klan, the American Nazi Party, or Operation Rescue. > >Oh dear... >Hon, in a small (but growing) town, in Moscow Idaho, there is a church... >I hate to break this to you, but the Aryan Nation, as opposed to the American >Nazi Party, is indeed based on the Aryan Church, b.k.a. Church of Jesus Christ >Christian-Aryan Nations. Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. >> It depends on how they go about doing it. The point is that they have a >> right to express their opinions, no matter how distasteful those opinions >> might be, so long as they do not incite violence or any other form of law >> breaking. > >Yes, but freedoms of speech isn't isolated to them. It is for us too. If they >have a right to spew their garbage, we have an equal right to refute it. I've never disputed that. >Their rights end where our rights begin, and vise versa... Not necessarily. Their right to swing their fists ends at our noses, and vice versa. >only problem is that they >seem to have this bad habit of overstepping their boundaries...They DO incite >violence, and break the law. I'm not disputing this either, but the churches themselves do not. Goddess knows I've gone up agains them enough, and have been physically assaulted by some of them (when I've been escorting at abortion clinics), and verbally assaulted as well, in many venues. This doesn't mean that the government has any right to shut down their churches. If the government shuts them down for preaching things that the government says is not supported by their Bible, then Orthodox Jews can have the church shut down Reform and conservative Synagogues, or vice versa, or the Catholics can have the government shut down Protestant churches--etc., etc., etc. Zeke does have some good points, but this idea of having the government shutting down churches for violating their own Biblical teachings is pure idiocy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:03:54 GMT On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:00:13 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >I'm not disputing this either, but the churches themselves do not. Goddess >knows I've gone up agains them enough, and have been physically assaulted >by some of them (when I've been escorting at abortion clinics), and >verbally assaulted as well, in many venues. This doesn't mean that the >government has any right to shut down their churches. You are awfully good at distoring an issue, Michelle. We are not talking about shutting down churches...though you would twist the dialogue in that direction! We are speaking of applying the same laws against other abusive groups, to churches. The chuches should have never been tacitly excluded in the first place. Clearly, those religious groups preaching and acting up gay-hatred are in violation of our laws, as well as of their own holy texts. So what churches or religious groups get disbanded, will only be those that do not comply with a court order to cease the hate crimes against homosexuals. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 16:08:39 -0700 In article <35f3056c.15231825@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:00:13 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle >Steiner) wrote: > >>I'm not disputing this either, but the churches themselves do not. Goddess >>knows I've gone up agains them enough, and have been physically assaulted >>by some of them (when I've been escorting at abortion clinics), and >>verbally assaulted as well, in many venues. This doesn't mean that the >>government has any right to shut down their churches. > >You are awfully good at distoring an issue, Michelle. We are not >talking about shutting down churches...though you would twist the >dialogue in that direction! You are a liar! I quote from your own message: >First, we bring these churchs into court, and challenge them >to provide solid evidence that either of their two bibles promotes >villification of homosexuals, or even describes homosexuality as a >sin. They would quickly lose their case, for these two books alone, >are their only justification for promoting condemnation of >homosexuality. Then, any church that persists in preaching against >hommosexuality, would be given fair warning to cease and desist, or >else: or else, they'll be shut down. I don't have any more time to waste on hateful, small-minded liars and bigots like you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: joshua geller Date: 06 Sep 1998 16:25:11 -0700 michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: > In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > wrote: > >I hate to break this to you, but the Aryan Nation, as opposed to > >the American Nazi Party, is indeed based on the Aryan Church, > >b.k.a. Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. > Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. Why is that, Michelle? You might think that their religious ideas are stupid or evil; if you do, I agree with you. But they are as entitled to them as you are to yours or I am to mine. Freedom of religion means freedom of religion for people that you (or I) disagree with. It's easy to grant freedom to people that you like or approve of; somewhat harder to grant freedom to people that you hate or despise. My best, josh ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 17:33:25 -0700 In article , joshua geller wrote: >michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >> In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher >> wrote: > >> >I hate to break this to you, but the Aryan Nation, as opposed to >> >the American Nazi Party, is indeed based on the Aryan Church, >> >b.k.a. Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. > >> Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. > >Why is that, Michelle? Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. >You might think that their religious ideas are stupid or evil; if you >do, I agree with you. But they are as entitled to them as you are to >yours or I am to mine. Freedom of religion means freedom of religion >for people that you (or I) disagree with. It's easy to grant freedom >to people that you like or approve of; somewhat harder to grant >freedom to people that you hate or despise. I agree with everything you wrote, but what you wrote has no relation to what I had written. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: joshua geller Date: 06 Sep 1998 21:06:07 -0700 michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: > In article , joshua geller > wrote: > >michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: > >> In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > >> wrote: > >> > Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ > >> Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. > >Why is that, Michelle? > Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a > church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a > church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, > and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. Dear Michelle, See above. This specific organization, which Ms. Lasher mentions (I emphasize above) is a church. > >You might think that their religious ideas are stupid or evil; if you > >do, I agree with you. But they are as entitled to them as you are to > >yours or I am to mine. Freedom of religion means freedom of religion > >for people that you (or I) disagree with. It's easy to grant freedom > >to people that you like or approve of; somewhat harder to grant > >freedom to people that you hate or despise. > I agree with everything you wrote, but what you wrote has no relation to > what I had written. Possibly so. My best, josh ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:20:23 -0700 In article , joshua geller wrote: >michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >> In article , joshua geller >> wrote: >> >michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >> >> In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher >> >> wrote: > >> >> > Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. > ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ > >> >> Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. > >> >Why is that, Michelle? > >> Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a >> church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a >> church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, >> and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. > >Dear Michelle, > >See above. This specific organization, which Ms. Lasher mentions (I >emphasize above) is a church. Yes, she mentioned it, but that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about the organization called the Aryan Nation, which is something apart and different from the church she drug in to confuse the issue. I'm not as easily confused as you are, it seems. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 13:55:08 +0200 Michelle Steiner wrote: > Yes, she mentioned it, but that's not what we were talking about. We were > talking about the organization called the Aryan Nation, which is something > apart and different from the church she drug in to confuse the issue. > > I'm not as easily confused as you are, it seems. No, it seems that you are more confused than he is. The "organization" called "The Aryan Nation" is a church. It started in a church. There are Aryan Nation churches all over the United States, and, I think, one in Russia. The organization is, itself, a church, based on a religion. Members become members of the church. That may not have been what you were talking about, but it was certainly what I was talking about. If you were confused as to the issue, then it is because you didn't read what I posted, or read through "filters". The term "Aryan Nation" is misused alot...but regardless of this misuse, the fact still remains that it is a church, not some generic name to be tagged onto any skinhead. In my postings about churches who have been attacked by the government because of being a base for terrorism, I spoke of the Aryan Nation as what it is. It is not my fault that you aren't listening. ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:44:50 -0700 In article <35F3C99B.6A4F9554@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >The term "Aryan Nation" is misused alot...but regardless of this misuse, the >fact still remains that it is a church, not some generic name to be tagged >onto any skinhead. I never said that it was. there is an organization called "Aryan Nation" that is apart and separate from, although closely aligned with, any churches that are called "Aryan Nation." >In my postings about churches who have been attacked by the government because >of being a base for terrorism, I spoke of the Aryan Nation as what it is. It >is not my fault that you aren't listening. I was listening. It's not my fault that you conflate two separate entities because they share the same name and philsophy. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:14:26 GMT On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:20:23 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >In article , joshua geller > wrote: > >>michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >>> In article , joshua geller >>> wrote: >>> >michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >>> >> In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> > Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. >> ^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ >> >>> >> Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. >> >>> >Why is that, Michelle? >> >>> Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a >>> church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a >>> church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, >>> and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. >> >>Dear Michelle, >> >>See above. This specific organization, which Ms. Lasher mentions (I >>emphasize above) is a church. > >Yes, she mentioned it, but that's not what we were talking about. We were >talking about the organization called the Aryan Nation, which is something >apart and different from the church she drug in to confuse the issue. > >I'm not as easily confused as you are, it seems. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >| Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | Aloha Michelle -- Not to be too quick in this matter -- The "Aryan Nation," whose hideous pages can be seen by the brave at: http://www.nidlink.com/~aryanvic/jcjew.html firmly and insistently identifies itself as a religion devoted to freeing Christianity from the poisonous influence of Jews and bolsheviks. In their world-view Christ was NOT a Jew and they are the ONLY viable Christian denomination. Some scrapings from their pages -- "We discover the fact in the book of Luke that Mary was of the house of Levi. The house of Levi was not Jew. The house of Levi could never be called Jews by anybody, nor could Judah be called Jewish, nor can you call the other ten tribes Jews by any stretch of the imagination, for they were not identified with the Kingdom of Judah. Jews are trying to identify themselves with the house of Abraham by saying they are Judeans, and that they descended from Judah. They only dwelt in the land of Judea, but they were never citizens of the house of Abraham, nor did they come through Judah." And lots more -- " Now, remember, the Galileans were not jews. You say, prove that. All right, let's turn to the sixth chapter of John. Jesus Christ had twelve disciples. One of them was a Jew; that was Judas Iscariot. All the rest came out of Galilee, out of the household of His selection." With enemies as mad as this how can we lose? Ward ----------------------------------------------------- "The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women ... It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become Lesbians." -- Pat Robertson (1992) ----------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 13:46:35 +0200 Michelle Steiner wrote: > Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a > church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a > church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, > and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. Geezus! Didn't you read *any* of the links on the site that I posted?!?!?!? The Aryan Nation IS a church! ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:38:50 -0700 In article <35F3C79B.61A4ED03@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >> Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a >> church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a >> church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, >> and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. > >Geezus! Didn't you read *any* of the links on the site that I posted?!?!?!? >The Aryan Nation IS a church! Just because the two share the name "Aryan Nation" does not mean that they are the same thing. Life is not that simple, dear, no matter how much you wish it to be. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: sheroux@europa.nospam.com (RavensHeart) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 17:04:41 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 13:46:35 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: > > >Michelle Steiner wrote: > >> Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a >> church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a >> church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, >> and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. > >Geezus! Didn't you read *any* of the links on the site that I posted?!?!?!? >The Aryan Nation IS a church! > >~Niki > I've looked at the website. What a nice camouflage: I especially liked this page: We need your help, today! Beautiful property for sale in North Idaho is abundant! Despite that well-known fact one of the wealthiest, most prestigious neighborhoods in the USA is growing up adjacent to and all around, the twenty-acre Aryan Nations HQ in Hayden Lake, Idaho. If one believes the jew-controlled media, that scenario would not be taking place, as they characterize Aryan Nations as the most vile thing on planet Earth. The fact is, this all-White Christian community is growing up around Aryan Nations, for the very reason that Aryan Nations is there. ...that is what we have been told. What am I getting to? A nationwide media campaign, joined by Governor Batt's office, the Idaho Statesman, Coeur d'Alene Press, and Spokesman-Review,have targeted Aryan Nations in a deliberate and systematic blackening and criminal endangerment. We will not pretend that their efforts have not hurt us, because they have. For fear of the jews, many of our (weaker) supporters have cowered and fallen away. On top of that, Aryan Nations taxes have been suddenly raised. On top of that, our non-profit mailing status was revoked. On top of that, your church's tax-exemption was revoked. BolsheviK AmeriKa attacks Christianity! We urgently need your financial help NOW more than ever before! Your twenty-acre church grounds are at stake to the jew bankers and tax-bandits. Even if only $5 or $10, please send something in today.... Now.....you really believe they are a church? Why don't you check out the sites for Rohowa or Crusader to get a better view of this "church". ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:11:54 GMT michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >In article , joshua geller > wrote: >>michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >>> In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher >>> wrote: >> >>> >I hate to break this to you, but the Aryan Nation, as opposed to >>> >the American Nazi Party, is indeed based on the Aryan Church, >>> >b.k.a. Church of Jesus Christ Christian-Aryan Nations. >> >>> Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. >> >>Why is that, Michelle? >Why is what? That something that is not a church or religion is not a >church or religion? Because it isn't. The Republican Party is not a >church, the Klan is not a church, the Christian Coalition is not a Church, >and Aryan Nation is not a church. None of them claim to be a church. >>You might think that their religious ideas are stupid or evil; if you >>do, I agree with you. But they are as entitled to them as you are to >>yours or I am to mine. Freedom of religion means freedom of religion >>for people that you (or I) disagree with. It's easy to grant freedom >>to people that you like or approve of; somewhat harder to grant >>freedom to people that you hate or despise. >I agree with everything you wrote, but what you wrote has no relation to >what I had written. In that case, you should have crossposted your follow-up to alt.non.sequitur. ___________ | | | POME | |_________| I'm entitled to do a little boasting You've all heard of alt.support.crossposting It was I who created that wonderful group I'm the King of crossposters, and that's no poop! john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) Grand Duke of Yugoslobia Duke of Vulgaria Grand Muff-Diver of Jerusalem Elector of Homophobia & Baron of Gray Matter ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 02:22:35 +0200 Okay, I'll speak more slowly.... Michelle Steiner wrote: > In article <35F2F5E2.CF5B7B39@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > wrote: > > >> The Aryan Nation is not a religion; it is simply a hate group, like the > >> Klan, the American Nazi Party, or Operation Rescue. > > > >Oh dear... > >Hon, in a small (but growing) town, in Moscow Idaho, there is a church... > >I hate to break this to you, but the Aryan Nation, as opposed to the American > >Nazi Party, is indeed based on the Aryan Church, b.k.a. Church of Jesus Christ > >Christian-Aryan Nations. > > Even so, it is no more a church than the Christian Coalition is a church. The difference between the Aryan Church and the Christian Coalition is that the Aryan Church is an actual church with buildings and everything. The Christian Coalition is an organization. Aryan Church = A church Christian Coalition = An organization of many churches (but that many churches and xians with half a lick of sense, won't touch with a 10 foot crucifix) > >> It depends on how they go about doing it. The point is that they have a > >> right to express their opinions, no matter how distasteful those opinions > >> might be, so long as they do not incite violence or any other form of law > >> breaking. > > > >Yes, but freedoms of speech isn't isolated to them. It is for us too. If they > >have a right to spew their garbage, we have an equal right to refute it. > > I've never disputed that. > > >Their rights end where our rights begin, and vise versa... > > Not necessarily. Their right to swing their fists ends at our noses, and > vice versa. That is, more simply put, what I said. They have the right to say whatever they want to say on their property...but on my property, it's called harrassment. I don't bother them, so they shouldn't bother me. > >only problem is that they > >seem to have this bad habit of overstepping their boundaries...They DO incite > >violence, and break the law. > > I'm not disputing this either, but the churches themselves do not. Okay, so who do you suppose is responsible for the conduct of the church members when the leaders of their church, essentially, instruct them to kill homosexuals? The church! > Goddess > knows I've gone up agains them enough, and have been physically assaulted > by some of them (when I've been escorting at abortion clinics), and > verbally assaulted as well, in many venues. This is why we have the right to bear arms, and should use it. Armed escorts are physically assaulted much less than unarmed ones. Being a martyr is noble when it's just you, but when someone else's life is in your hands too, maybe it's time to consider purchasing that cute Ladysmith you saw hanging in the shop. > This doesn't mean that the > government has any right to shut down their churches. If these churches are the base of operations for terrorist activity, you bet your booty the government has a right to shut them down. They've certainly done it more than once...They're just selective about which terrorists they choose to shut down. > If the government shuts them down for preaching things that the government > says is not supported by their Bible, then Orthodox Jews can have the > church shut down Reform and conservative Synagogues, or vice versa, or the > Catholics can have the government shut down Protestant churches--etc., > etc., etc. Zeke does have some good points, but this idea of having the > government shutting down churches for violating their own Biblical > teachings is pure idiocy. Sometimes ideas are borne of idiocy. The idea of a trial is a sort of dream...It would be nice to see them try to stand under the scrutiny of their own supposed god. He was saying it would be nice. Do you not agree that it would be nice to see xians' lives compared with their preachings? "...would be nice" is a far cry from "I'm going to work towards..." Learn the difference, and you will, likely, learn more from people you never knew you could learn from. Personally, I would like to see the religious reich's leaders tried on the basis of their constitutional violations...not biblical ones. Now *that* would be a show...I'd be first in line to testify about how well the xians teach their children freedom of speech and freedom of religion ::morbid chuckle:: I see you like to use the Wiccan creed at the end of your posts. Does that only apply when you agree with someone? ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 17:42:21 -0700 In article <35F3274A.122F32B3@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >The difference between the Aryan Church and the Christian Coalition is that the >Aryan Church is an actual church with buildings and everything. The Christian >Coalition is an organization. >Aryan Church = A church >Christian Coalition = An organization of many churches (but that many churches and >xians with half a lick of sense, won't touch with a 10 foot crucifix) We're not speaking of the Aryan Church. We're speaking of The Aryan Nation. They are not the same. [...] >That is, more simply put, what I said. They have the right to say >whatever they >want to say on their property...but on my property, it's called harrassment. I >don't bother them, so they shouldn't bother me. That doesn't address anything that I wrote. Why do you continue to bring in irrelevant points? >Okay, so who do you suppose is responsible for the conduct of the church >members >when the leaders of their church, essentially, instruct them to kill >homosexuals? >The church! When have church leaders, speaking as church leaders, instructed anyone to kill homosexuals? >> This doesn't mean that the >> government has any right to shut down their churches. > >If these churches are the base of operations for terrorist activity, you >bet your >booty the government has a right to shut them down. They've certainly >done it more >than once...They're just selective about which terrorists they choose to >shut down. That is a big "if," and an unproven premise--in fact, it is a red herring. >I see you like to use the Wiccan creed at the end of your posts. Does >that only >apply when you agree with someone? Why do you continue to bring in irrelevant things to a disucssion? All you're doing is showing that you have a weak argument and really don't know what you're talking about. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:05:46 +0200 Magenta, it is apparent that you are not reading anything I have written. I can assume that it is either because you need new glasses, or because you really aren't interested in anything I, or anyone else has to say, if it exceeds your limited views. My suggestion is that you read something about the Aryan Nation... I would also like to suggest that you read a little about the U.S. government, including the files that the CIA has kept on various people and organizations. Then go back, and read some more about their anti terrorist activities. Might I also suggest, that if you do not wish to address the relevancy of your religion to your life, that you not post indicators as to your religion in every message you send. You do like to call anything that you don't want to talk about "irrelevant", don't you? If you don't feel it relevant, don't post it. ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:58:04 -0700 In article <35F3CC1A.FB7168F6@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >Magenta, it is apparent that you are not reading anything I have written. On the contrary, Little Nell, I read it. I also analyze it and put it in context, and recognize it for the pap that it is. >My suggestion is that you read something about the Aryan Nation... >I would also like to suggest that you read a little about the U.S. government, >including the files that the CIA has kept on various people and organizations. >Then go back, and read some more about their anti terrorist activities. I probably know more about them than you do, sweetie. >You do like to call anything that you don't want to talk about >"irrelevant", don't you? No, not at all. I do call your attempts to insert red herrings into the discussion as being irrelevant to the discussion, because that's what they are. Maybe if you knew what you were talking about and were able to prove your points, you wouldn't feel compelled to obfuscate as you have been doing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:48:18 +0200 Michelle Steiner wrote: > Maybe if you knew what you were talking about and were able to prove your > points, you wouldn't feel compelled to obfuscate as you have been doing. "Prove" an opinion...Heheh...That's a good one. I did prove that Aryan Nation was a church, and provided a page with numerous sources. It is not my fault that you didn't read it. Just because you don't read something doesn't mean that the information doesn't exist. ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:39:51 -0700 In article <35F4D332.D8177ACE@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >> Maybe if you knew what you were talking about and were able to prove your >> points, you wouldn't feel compelled to obfuscate as you have been doing. > >"Prove" an opinion...Heheh...That's a good one. Hey that's a start; you're claiming it's fact any more. >I did prove that Aryan Nation was a church, and provided a page with numerous >sources. It is not my fault that you didn't read it. Just because you >don't read >something doesn't mean that the information doesn't exist. No, you proved that there is an Ayran Nation church. You did not prove that the Aryan Nation itself is part of that church. Keep tap dancing, Nellie. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: sheroux@europa.nospam.com (RavensHeart) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 17:11:02 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:05:46 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: >Magenta, it is apparent that you are not reading anything I have written. >I can assume that it is either because you need new glasses, or because you really >aren't interested in anything I, or anyone else has to say, if it exceeds your >limited views. >My suggestion is that you read something about the Aryan Nation... >I would also like to suggest that you read a little about the U.S. government, >including the files that the CIA has kept on various people and organizations. >Then go back, and read some more about their anti terrorist activities. >Might I also suggest, that if you do not wish to address the relevancy of your >religion to your life, that you not post indicators as to your religion in every >message you send. You do like to call anything that you don't want to talk about >"irrelevant", don't you? If you don't feel it relevant, don't post it. > >~Niki > Could you please TRY to include the post you are replying to in yours? It's hard enough to follow you when you cross-post first to one group, then to another. A black woman separatist defending the Aryan Nation. This has got to be a classic. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:54:30 +0200 RavensHeart wrote: > Could you please TRY to include the post you are replying to in yours? Aw damn...Here you go, reminding me of your existance again... Didn't you get enough the last time? Oh well, I keep forgetting that you can't control yourself. Learn to keep up, and you won't need me to waste bandwidth and copy a whole message to give a 1 or 2 paragraph reply. > It's hard enough to follow you when you cross-post first to one group, > then to another. ::eyeing the newsgroups:: Looks like someone crossposted...Any of the groups not related to homosexuality? No? Next. > A black woman separatist defending the Aryan Nation. This has got to > be a classic. Excuse me? Defending? By discussing the fact that they are a church, I am defending them? That is *reeeeeeaaaaallllllyyyy* reaching, Raven. Perhaps you should go back and eat some more milk-toast. Your blood-sugar must be down. And you call Ezekiel delusional! This gets funnier by the minute. ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: sheroux@europa.nospam.com (RavensHeart) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 13:58:14 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:54:30 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: > > >RavensHeart wrote: > >> Could you please TRY to include the post you are replying to in yours? > >Aw damn...Here you go, reminding me of your existance again... >Didn't you get enough the last time? >Oh well, I keep forgetting that you can't control yourself. >Learn to keep up, and you won't need me to waste bandwidth and copy a whole message to >give a 1 or 2 paragraph reply. You don't need to copy the whole message, bunker girl. Please see above example. Bite me. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:56:29 -0700 [[Learn to keep up, and you won't need me to waste bandwidth and copy a whole message to give a 1 or 2 paragraph reply.>> And you are a "mediator," Niki? Yeah, and my name is Lawrence Welk. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:38:45 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:56:29 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >Yeah, and my name is Lawrence Welk. So much for your taste in spirits to channel. Where's the accompanying accordian polka dance music to announce his presence? Or does this only come with the premium seance? --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:06:30 -0700 [[So much for your taste in spirits to channel. Where's the accompanying accordian polka dance music to announce his presence? Or does this only come with the premium seance?>> No, the premium seance features Liberace on the Baby Grand. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 18:14:10 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:05:46 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: >Magenta, it is apparent that you are not reading anything I have written. >I can assume that it is either because you need new glasses, or because you really >aren't interested in anything I, or anyone else has to say, if it exceeds your >limited views. Which was it again, Nicole? Mediator? Counselor? What were you purporting to be working toward? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:59:11 +0200 Oh geeze...I called her Magenta. That wasn't intentional, but was, most likely, a freudian slip. ~Niki Nicole Lasher wrote: > Magenta, ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:45:40 -0700 In article <35F42CFE.BC8DAE0@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher wrote: >Oh geeze...I called her Magenta. That wasn't intentional, but was, most likely, a >freudian slip. > >~Niki > >Nicole Lasher wrote: > >> Magenta, I see that you still trip while trying to tap dance, Little Nell. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 08:33:16 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 02:22:35 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: >If these churches are the base of operations for terrorist activity, you bet your >booty the government has a right to shut them down. They've certainly done it more >than once...They're just selective about which terrorists they choose to shut down. Well, said, Niki! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:26:39 +0000 Michelle Steiner wrote: > If the government shuts them down for preaching things that the government > says is not supported by their Bible, then Orthodox Jews can have the > church shut down Reform and conservative Synagogues, or vice versa, or the > Catholics can have the government shut down Protestant churches--etc., > etc., etc. Zeke does have some good points, but this idea of having the > government shutting down churches for violating their own Biblical > teachings is pure idiocy. Sure, let's establish as a matter of law that an organization can be shut down for merely being inconsistent. The watch what happens. GLAAD makes a point in its press releases of condemning NAMBLA, and child molesters generally. So one day, after this new law is enshrined and all the evil Xtian churches are closed down, a GLAAD member is caught with a 17-yr old boy. Inconsistency! And GLAAD is shut down. Worse, what Zeke doesn't realize (or won't admit) is that the Xtian Bible *does* say, in unambiguous language in several places, that God wants gays dead. While it is hypocritical for churches to insist on enforcing those rules, while blandly ignoring others in the same books, it is the *fundamentalist* churches that allow the least exceptions and hew most closely to their holy book. The mainstream liberal denominations are the more hypocritical in that they are willing not to enforce a broader range of out-of-date biblical rulings. So it is precisely the churches that hate us the most, the fundamentalists, that will last the longest under Zeke's anti-hypocrisy crusade. -Bill ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:48:13 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:26:39 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >Worse, what Zeke doesn't realize (or won't admit) is that the Xtian >Bible *does* say, in unambiguous language in several places, that >God wants gays dead. You are blatantly incorrect. I advise you to read a document I provide on my web site, that refutes every passage in both the old and new testament, that KKKristians cite, as excuse to condemn gays. http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Stonewall/8944/dave.htm I even mentioned this a few messages back...I seem to have to repeat myself to those who do not read too well. There is absolutely no reference in these books that declares homosexuality a sin. Show me your "unambiguous" references, please, oh wise one! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:11:33 GMT michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: [much material of great pith and moment deleted] >I'm not disputing this either, but the churches themselves do not. Goddess >knows I've gone up agains them enough, and have been physically assaulted >by some of them (when I've been escorting at abortion clinics), and >verbally assaulted as well, in many venues. This doesn't mean that the >government has any right to shut down their churches. Michelle, I am truly amazed. You and I actually agree on something. I once counter-picketed the picketers at an abortion clinic. I am a supporter of the prostitutes rights movement. This movement is led by Norma Jean Almodovar, a retired prostitute. I have contributed tens of thousands of dollars to this movement. For information about the prostitutes rights movement, see the website www.freedomusa.org. Norma Jean, and all other people in the prostitutes right movement, believe that women (and men) have the right to control their own bodies, and that this right extends beyond the right of women to have abortions. All of us in the prostitutes rights movement believe that the right of people to control their own bodies extends to the right of both men and women to engage in prostitution. john1@prostitution.org (Fred Cherry) ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:03:42 GMT On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:51:46 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: >Yes, but freedoms of speech isn't isolated to them. It is for us too. If they >have a right to spew their garbage, we have an equal right to refute it. Their >rights end where our rights begin, and vise versa...only problem is that they >seem to have this bad habit of overstepping their boundaries...They DO incite >violence, and break the law. These people don't make much sense, Niki. While participating in a gay newsgroup--and supposedly gay or pro-gay themselves--they insist on defending illegal actions by religous groups, include their aggressive homophobia. They not once have considered, as we have, that their homophobia is not even religiously justified, as the books which they claim give them such sanction, in reality do *not. (Of course, I'm talking about the Old and New Testaments.) I think if someone *other than myself brought up this issue, the oppostion herein would be less opposing, and more agreeing. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 16:05:24 -0700 In article <35f30497.15018490@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >These people don't make much sense, Niki. While participating in a gay >newsgroup--and supposedly gay or pro-gay themselves--they insist on >defending illegal actions by religous groups, No we don't. We do, however, have a rational knowledge of what is legal and what is illegal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 08:33:17 GMT On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 16:05:24 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >No we don't. We do, however, have a rational knowledge of what is legal >and what is illegal. Now *that remains to be seen! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:27:11 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > I think if someone *other than myself brought up this issue, the > oppostion herein would be less opposing, and more agreeing. That may or may not be true. However, you may want to keep that in mind when you decide your strategy. Your current one isn't bringing in large groups of Zeke supporters... Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:31:21 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:27:11 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > >> I think if someone *other than myself brought up this issue, the >> oppostion herein would be less opposing, and more agreeing. > >That may or may not be true. However, you may want to keep that in mind when you >decide your strategy. Your current one isn't bringing in large groups of Zeke >supporters... It is obvious that the gay newsgroups are not going to draw in large groups, until the Internet expands to include the majority of low income people around the world. Until then, anyone with some progressive ideas gets smothered by the right-wing queer cabal...which, as a group, is composed of a rather small number of people. And I am not looking for supporters...I am looking for kindred souls that have much more aggressive sensibilities re. gay pride. It is obvious the queer cabal is a gumming up of the works, and must be removed before the wheels of revolutionary will run smoothly. Time and fate will take care of that...I feel no need to do anything about this, myself. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:02:24 GMT ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) writes: >On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:51:46 +0200, Nicole Lasher > wrote: >>Yes, but freedoms of speech isn't isolated to them. It is for us too. If they >>have a right to spew their garbage, we have an equal right to refute it. Their >>rights end where our rights begin, and vise versa...only problem is that they >>seem to have this bad habit of overstepping their boundaries...They DO incite >>violence, and break the law. >These people don't make much sense, Niki. While participating in a gay >newsgroup--and supposedly gay or pro-gay themselves--they insist on >defending illegal actions by religous groups, include their aggressive >homophobia. They not once have considered, as we have, that their >homophobia is not even religiously justified, as the books which they >claim give them such sanction, in reality do *not. (Of course, I'm >talking about the Old and New Testaments.) >I think if someone *other than myself brought up this issue, the >oppostion herein would be less opposing, and more agreeing. >--- >Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass >for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! >http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm As the Greatest Amateur Lawyer Since Caryl Chessman, I say unto you as follows: What did you call your parody? If you called it: "Peanuts" then you are committing a copyright violation. If you called something like: "Walnuts", then you are within your rights. >--- >My website kicks (but never licks) butt! >http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ Your head is up your butt! john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 02:30:32 GMT On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:46:27 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >In article <35F2BACA.6C2BE06E@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > wrote: > >> >> >>Ward Stewart wrote: >> >>> You just don't get it do you Michelle -- some religions are naughty >>> and some religions are nice and in Thrace, Zeke will decide who is >>> who, he's got a little list! >>> >>> ward >> >>So what you're saying is that you wouldn't disapprove of the Aryan Nation >>actively recruiting in your neighborhood? > >The Aryan Nation is not a religion; it is simply a hate group, like the >Klan, the American Nazi Party, or Operation Rescue. Still missing the point Michelle! For Zeke and his fellow Thracians such an organization IS a religion. ward ------------------------------------------------------ "You people are helping us do that, by proving that discrimination against homosexuals does, in fact, happen. It is ubiquitous and endemic, and you bigots have as many excuses for it, as eskimos have words for snow. -Bruce Garrett ------------------------------------------------------ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 08:33:18 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 02:30:32 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >Still missing the point Michelle! For Zeke and his fellow Thracians >such an organization IS a religion. > >ward Eenie meani, chillie beanie, the spirits are about to speak! --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: sheroux@europa.nospam.com (RavensHeart) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 17:14:02 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 08:33:18 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote: >On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 02:30:32 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) >wrote: > >>Still missing the point Michelle! For Zeke and his fellow Thracians >>such an organization IS a religion. >> >>ward > >Eenie meani, chillie beanie, the spirits are about to speak! > > If anyone should know, it would be you, archangel. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:27:30 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 17:14:02 GMT, sheroux@europa.nospam.com (RavensHeart) wrote: >If anyone should know, it would be you, archangel. Leave it to me; this is out of your ballpark. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:52:18 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:27:30 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote: >this is out of your ballpark. Of course. He's sane. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:48:18 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:52:18 GMT, jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) wrote: >On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:27:30 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel >Krahlin) wrote: > >>this is out of your ballpark. > >Of course. > >He's sane. Hardly. Maliciousness is a mental sickness. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: jmnorthw@gte.uce_is_icky.net (J. Northwood) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:07:29 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:48:18 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote: >Hardly. Maliciousness is a mental sickness. Really? Care to cite the classification from the DSM-IV that backs you on this -- and then justify why _you_ don't fall under the same classification? No? Quelle surprise. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:12:00 +0200 Ward Stewart wrote: > Still missing the point Michelle! For Zeke and his fellow Thracians > such an organization IS a religion. > > ward Ward, it would help if you spent more time reading, and less time posting. If you read, you will find that the Aryan Nation is a church. It constantly amazes me how easy some people are. Don't you know you have done exactly what the Aryan Nation wanted you to do, by associating their name with a generic term for White supremacists, rather than what it is; a church? ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: sheroux@europa.nospam.com (RavensHeart) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 17:16:43 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:12:00 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: > > >Ward Stewart wrote: > >> Still missing the point Michelle! For Zeke and his fellow Thracians >> such an organization IS a religion. >> >> ward > >Ward, it would help if you spent more time reading, and less time posting. >If you read, you will find that the Aryan Nation is a church. >It constantly amazes me how easy some people are. >Don't you know you have done exactly what the Aryan Nation wanted you to do, by >associating their name with a generic term for White supremacists, rather than >what it is; a church? > >~Niki > > Is that why they write on their web site: On top of that, our non-profit mailing status was revoked. On top of that, your church's tax-exemption was revoked. Now why would that be? Would that be because they are not REALLY a chuch? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Nicole Lasher Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 09:01:45 +0200 RavensHeart wrote: > Is that why they write on their web site: > > On top of that, our non-profit mailing status was revoked. > > On top of that, your church's tax-exemption was revoked. > > Now why would that be? Would that be because they are not REALLY a > chuch? Of course you would say that since the U.S. government decides something, it *must* be correct. They determine that the Aryan Nation is more a terrorist organization than a church, so they *must* know what they're talking about... Lots of religious groups and churches don't have tax exemption status, but it doesn't make them not churches...It makes them Federally unrecognized churches. Now, as my grandma would say, "Stay out of grown-folks' conversation," and go back to your television. The TV will always tell you the truth... ~Niki ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: sheroux@europa.nospam.com (RavensHeart) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:03:49 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 09:01:45 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: > > >RavensHeart wrote: > >> Is that why they write on their web site: >> >> On top of that, our non-profit mailing status was revoked. >> >> On top of that, your church's tax-exemption was revoked. >> >> Now why would that be? Would that be because they are not REALLY a >> chuch? > >Of course you would say that since the U.S. government decides something, it *must* >be correct. They determine that the Aryan Nation is more a terrorist organization >than a church, so they *must* know what they're talking about... >Lots of religious groups and churches don't have tax exemption status, but it >doesn't make them not churches...It makes them Federally unrecognized churches. >Now, as my grandma would say, "Stay out of grown-folks' conversation," and go back >to your television. The TV will always tell you the truth... > > >~Niki Go sit on your rifle, bunker babe. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:27:44 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:12:00 +0200, Nicole Lasher wrote: >Ward, it would help if you spent more time reading, and less time posting. >If you read, you will find that the Aryan Nation is a church. >It constantly amazes me how easy some people are. One would think Wart and some others here, are actually right-wing saboteurs! But the truth is (and I'm sure you'll agree, Niki), that status-quo assimilationists are as dangerous as our enemies; perhaps even more so. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:30:41 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > One would think Wart and some others here, are actually right-wing > saboteurs! But the truth is (and I'm sure you'll agree, Niki), that > status-quo assimilationists are as dangerous as our enemies; perhaps > even more so. Ooohhh! It sounds like the beginning of another Zeke Witch Hunt. Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 9 Sep 1998 00:12:10 -0500 I've been away for the past several days in San Francisco. Any legal news in this case since last week? -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:28:08 GMT On 9 Sep 1998 00:12:10 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >I've been away for the past several days in San Francisco. > >Any legal news in this case since last week? Not really. All's quiet on the western front! I have, however, been garnering more support from all different corners...including from that guy who sued Disney for being kicked out of Disneyland for dancing with his male partner. And an invititation by a lawyer to discuss this topic in misc.legal.moderated. You can always view my Pee Nuts page to keep updated...as I update it daily, to keep all concerned parties informed. I have added a document called "Is This Letter Even Legal?", which you will find immediately beneath the attorney's letter. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:27:39 GMT On 9 Sep 1998 00:12:10 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: > >>I've been away for the past several days in San Francisco. >> >>Any legal news in this case since last week? More update: Checking my log of page hits for my Pee Nuts page today, I see that Charles Schulz's attorneys, as represented by Baker-Hostetler, have been visiting, too. I know this, by the "host name" in my log: "gateway.baker-hostetler.com". They use Windows NT, by the way. Well, their arbitrary deadline for me to respond at the latest, is in two days, Sept. 11. That should be when the "Schulz" hits the fan, I'd say! Maybe they'll back off, but I certainly hope not...I want them to throw the book at me! (The comic book, that is!) I don't work for Peanuts, but maybe they'll work for me! (I wonder if I'll be *censored from the entire World Wide Web; *that would be an honor extraordinaire!) --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 21:06:50 GMT On 9 Sep 1998 00:12:10 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >I've been away for the past several days in San Francisco. > >Any legal news in this case since last week? Oh, this just came in, as response to my e-mail regarding my Pee Nuts controversy, sent to "Disinfo" counterculture online zine at http://www.disinfo.com/: ---begin message From: Richard Metzger To: "'Ezekiel J. Krahlin'" Subject: RE: Charles Schulz's Attorneys Are After My Ass! Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:52:43 -0400 Organization: |d|i|s|i|n|f|o|r|m|a|t|i|o|n Hi Ezekial, We're doing a thing on electronic civil disobedience for Disinformation soon, so I'm forwarding your email on to our editor who's handling that section. Good luck with your fight against Schultz's pitbulls. How UPTIGHT! You go girl, Richard ---end message And my response was: ---begin message At 03:52 PM 9/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Ezekial, Hey! >We're doing a thing on electronic civil disobedience for Disinformation >soon, so I'm forwarding your email on to our editor who's handling that >section. Thank you thank you thank you. >Good luck with your fight against Schultz's pitbulls. I will never, never surrender! September 11 (two days from now) is the arbitrary deadline these attorney-sharks have set, as the last day for me to respond. I shall continue to ignore them, while making a media splash for my own benefit, which is also for the benefit of gay rights. As I like to say: "Wait'll the Schulz hits the fan!" >How UPTIGHT! How illegal! I recently added to my Pee Nuts site a brief essay called "Is This Letter Even Legal?"...so if you find the time to read it, I'm sure you'll have good laughs. >You go girl, I could hardly claim credit by being a member of the better sex. I am merely a dumbshit male who owes everything to the feminist movement, for my insights. ---end message --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 21:36:28 GMT On 9 Sep 1998 00:12:10 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >I've been away for the past several days in San Francisco. > >Any legal news in this case since last week? And this just in, also from "Disinfo" http://www.disinfo.com/: ---begin message From id@disinfo.com Wed Sep 9 14:15:04 1998 Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:12:00 -0400 To: "metzger@bway.net" , ezekielk@sj.bigger.net From: "i.d." Subject: Re: FW: Charles Schulz's Attorneys Are After My Ass! this is perfect for the copyright/copywrong section...it'll focus extensively on Fair Use issues... ---end message --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 05:25:57 GMT On 9 Sep 1998 00:12:10 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >Any legal news in this case since last week? Okay, another update: Just received the following message today: ---begin message Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:32:10 -0400 From: [Comic Book Legal Defense Fund] Subject: CBLDF reply to Ezekiel Krahlin >I'm wondering if anyone at CBLDF can give me any advice in the following >matter. I just received an e-mail that I should cease displaying one of my >satirical works, using two "Peanuts Characters". > http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm Dear Mr. Krahlin, I have forwarded your letter to the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund's legal counsel at Barsy, Joseph, Lichenstein. Our attorneys will examine your letter and advise me whether, in their opinion, your case fits the CBLDF mission as laid out in our by-laws. If they determine that your case does fit our mission parameters, they will recommend a course of action, and they may wish to speak to you directly. I should have a preliminary determination from them on Monday, September 14th. In the meantime, I would appreciate it if you could provide me with contact information, including your phone number and mailing address. I invite you to call me here at the CBLDF at 1-800-xxx-xxxx. I look forward to talking to you to learn more about your case and to explain the CBLDF's procedures in greater detail. Sincerely, [someone] Executive Director Comic Book Legal Defense Fund cc: Barsy, Joseph, Lichenstein ********************************************************* Comic Book Legal Defense Fund web: http://www.cbldf.org ********************************************************* ---end message So I had a great talk with [someone], who apologized for taking so long to get back...as my e-mail got buried...though they consider my situation of priority interest. He said my information has been forwarded to their top attorney specializing in First Amendment issues...who is presently in Italy, but is likely to contact me in a day or two. This all looks very good for me. Also, today, Sept. 11, is the arbitrary deadline for me to reply to Schulz's lawyers. I have not replied, as I choose to ignore them...and they have not sent me any communique other than their original warning. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:10:07 GMT michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: >In article <35F2BACA.6C2BE06E@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > wrote: >> >> >>Ward Stewart wrote: >> >>> You just don't get it do you Michelle -- some religions are naughty >>> and some religions are nice and in Thrace, Zeke will decide who is >>> who, he's got a little list! >>> >>> ward >> >>So what you're saying is that you wouldn't disapprove of the Aryan Nation >>actively recruiting in your neighborhood? >The Aryan Nation is not a religion; it is simply a hate group, like the >Klan, the American Nazi Party, or Operation Rescue. >>How about an angry hoarde of >>Baptists trying to save you from the "curse of homosexuality" on a daily >>basis? How much of that do you think you could take before making a list of >>your own? >It depends on how they go about doing it. The point is that they have a >right to express their opinions, no matter how distasteful those opinions >might be, so long as they do not incite violence or any other form of law >breaking. Wrong again Michelle. In the case of Cherry v. Postmaster-General, 272 F. Supp. 982, I was denied the right to express homophobic facts and homophobic opinions. Due to the influence of a homosexual Congressman, the Postal authorities, without notice or hearing, removed my homophobic postcards from the mail and hurled them into a fiery furnace. john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: desalvo@monitor.net (John De Salvio) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 07:45:17 -0700 In article , john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) wrote: > michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) writes: > > >In article <35F2BACA.6C2BE06E@netvision.net.il>, Nicole Lasher > > wrote: > > >> > >> > >>Ward Stewart wrote: > >> > >>> You just don't get it do you Michelle -- some religions are naughty > >>> and some religions are nice and in Thrace, Zeke will decide who is > >>> who, he's got a little list! > >>> > >>> ward > >> > >>So what you're saying is that you wouldn't disapprove of the Aryan Nation > >>actively recruiting in your neighborhood? > > >The Aryan Nation is not a religion; it is simply a hate group, like the > >Klan, the American Nazi Party, or Operation Rescue. > > >>How about an angry hoarde of > >>Baptists trying to save you from the "curse of homosexuality" on a daily > >>basis? How much of that do you think you could take before making a list of > >>your own? > > >It depends on how they go about doing it. The point is that they have a > >right to express their opinions, no matter how distasteful those opinions > >might be, so long as they do not incite violence or any other form of law > >breaking. > > Wrong again Michelle. In the case of Cherry v. Postmaster-General, 272 F. > Supp. 982, I was denied the right to express homophobic facts and > homophobic opinions. Due to the influence of a homosexual Congressman, the > Postal authorities, without notice or hearing, removed my homophobic > postcards from the mail and hurled them into a fiery furnace. Aaawwwwwwwwww........ -- John NOTE: "From" address is deliberately wrong. My correct e-mail address is: desalvio["AT" SYMBOL]monitor.net ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:33:20 +0000 Fred Cherry wrote: > Wrong again Michelle. In the case of Cherry v. Postmaster-General, 272 F. > Supp. 982, I was denied the right to express homophobic facts and > homophobic opinions. Due to the influence of a homosexual Congressman, the > Postal authorities, without notice or hearing, removed my homophobic > postcards from the mail and hurled them into a fiery furnace. Strangely, I find myself in the position of being mildly sympathetic to Fred here. However, my sympathy is two-edged, Fred, and if you intend to take solace in it you had better acknowledge the other side of the coin (mixed metaphors and all). While I am not sympathetic towards child molesters, one thing has been bothering me during recent years. According to some interpretations I've heard, written sexual stories in which children engage in explicit sexual activities, and sketches/paintings (NOT photographs) of children who are naked or are involved in sex, subject the creator and/or possessor to the same penalties as actions that involve actual live children, such as the production of photographic pornography using children as models. The rationalization given for this is that, while the authorities admit that there is no specific living child they can point to as the "victim" in the case where the material was, say, written pornography, that it is dangerous because it "incites" child molesting, and so must be prohibited. While I have no wish to help child molesters become incited, it strikes me that there is abundant literature about that can "incite" murder, assault, robbery, embezzlement, etc. that it would be clearly recognized as a violation of the first amendment to suppress, for instance, murder mysteries or even the publication of _Soldier_of_Fortune_. Yet when it comes to children, the writing of a fantasy is considered the same as having performed the actions of the fictional characters. If this standard were applied in literature, Agatha Christie among others would be doing life in prison. So, Fred, I think your anti-gay propaganda may have been banned because of similar reasoning, that its content could "incite" anti-gay violence. While I would prefer not to see anyone become incited to carry out violence against my community, I am reluctant to trample the First Amendment in order to acheive that end. BUT, that said, are you willing to support the right of pornographers to create written and visual depictions of children engaging in sex as long as no actual children are used? If so, then we may have common ground in defending the First Amendment, and I respect your position because of it. If not, then you are just a hypocrite, and I have no sympathy for your problems with the Postal Service. -Bill ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:48:06 GMT On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:33:20 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >Fred Cherry wrote: > >> Wrong again Michelle. In the case of Cherry v. Postmaster-General, 272 F. >> Supp. 982, I was denied the right to express homophobic facts and >> homophobic opinions. Due to the influence of a homosexual Congressman, the >> Postal authorities, without notice or hearing, removed my homophobic >> postcards from the mail and hurled them into a fiery furnace. > >Strangely, I find myself in the position of being mildly sympathetic >to Fred here. However, my sympathy is two-edged, Fred, and if >you intend to take solace in it you had better acknowledge the other >side of the coin (mixed metaphors and all). Be reminded that the offending items were OPEN POST CARDS and were, I would suspect, not only scurrilous but pornographic as well. Be further reminded that it was post-cards cast into the "fiery furnace" and not Fred himself. ward ================================================= "Gays have learned whining from blacks" -Cinque ================================================= ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: "James Doemer" Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:50:02 -0400 Ward Stewart wrote in message <360dcc3a.6040959@news.hi.net>... >On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:33:20 +0000, Bill Lindemann >wrote: > >>Fred Cherry wrote: > >Be further reminded that it was post-cards cast into the "fiery >furnace" and not Fred himself. > >ward Hmmm.... Odd mixture of feelings I have about that.... ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:02:59 -0700 [[Wrong again Michelle. In the case of Cherry v. Postmaster-General, 272 F. Supp. 982, I was denied the right to express homophobic facts and homophobic opinions. Due to the influence of a homosexual Congressman, the Postal authorities, without notice or hearing, removed my homophobic postcards from the mail and hurled them into a fiery furnace. >> Oh goody, Ezekiel Krahlin now has a little playmate. Have fun in the sandbox kiddies! ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:05:11 GMT On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:23:16 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >In article <35FE0313.639063A3@pacbell.net>, Frank Martinez Lester > wrote: > >>[[Wrong again Michelle. In the case of Cherry v. Postmaster-General, 272 F. >>Supp. 982, I was denied the right to express homophobic facts and >>homophobic opinions. Due to the influence of a homosexual Congressman, the >>Postal authorities, without notice or hearing, removed my homophobic >>postcards from the mail and hurled them into a fiery furnace. >> >> >>Oh goody, Ezekiel Krahlin now has a little playmate. Have fun in the sandbox >>kiddies! > >Cherry is complaining about laws and postal regulations being applied to >him in the same manner as the would be to any other violator of those laws >and regulations. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >| Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | >| michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | >---------------------------------------------------------------------- You just don't understand Michelle --- Cherry is a Jew with sprue and therefore the authorities are out to get him. ward ================================================= "Gays have learned whining from blacks" -Cinque ================================================= ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:03:11 GMT On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:58:08 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >For the government to put an end to any church or religion would spell the >end of religious freedom in the United States. Michelle, that is an awfully simplistic conclusion...not to mention wrong-headed. A church has no more right to practice illegal acts, than any other group or person. We would merely be ending the reign of terror that many Christain churches wield over gays. No other institution does this, at least not to such a virulent degree. If the gov't discovered a church illegally selling black market videos, they would be stopped by order of the courts. If a whole network of churches were involved, they would all be charged with criminal fault. For these churches to continue as churches, they'd be obligated to end their illegal activities. If they don't, they'd then be shut down. We should only apply the same rules when it comes to homosexual citizens. First, we bring these churchs into court, and challenge them to provide solid evidence that either of their two bibles promotes villification of homosexuals, or even describes homosexuality as a sin. They would quickly lose their case, for these two books alone, are their only justification for promoting condemnation of homosexuality. Then, any church that persists in preaching against hommosexuality, would be given fair warning to cease and desist, or else: or else, they'll be shut down. This is *not at all the same as putting an end to any religion. I am sorry you can only interpret my proposal on such an overly-broad and misconstrued level. May I remind you of the quote you place in your own signature: >------------------------------------------ >"An it harm none, do as thou will. | >That is the whole of the law." | As long as churches cease harming gays, they can do as they will. >---------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 16:04:11 -0700 In article <35f24af9.11664388@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >>For the government to put an end to any church or religion would spell the >>end of religious freedom in the United States. > >Michelle, that is an awfully simplistic conclusion...not to mention >wrong-headed. A church has no more right to practice illegal acts, >than any other group or person. We would merely be ending the reign of >terror that many Christain churches wield over gays. No other >institution does this, at least not to such a virulent degree. Preaching that the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin is not an illegal act. [...] >We should only apply the same rules when it comes to homosexual >citizens. First, we bring these churchs into court, and challenge them >to provide solid evidence that either of their two bibles promotes >villification of homosexuals, or even describes homosexuality as a >sin. It would never get to court. It is not a violation of the law, nor is it a civil tort. >This is *not at all the same as putting an end to any religion. I am >sorry you can only interpret my proposal on such an overly-broad and >misconstrued level. Shutting down a church for its teachings is not putting an end to a religion? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 08:33:19 GMT On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 16:04:11 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >>This is *not at all the same as putting an end to any religion. I am >>sorry you can only interpret my proposal on such an overly-broad and >>misconstrued level. > >Shutting down a church for its teachings is not putting an end to a religion? Well, all this violent homophobia is not coming out of thin air! I do not see any of the other western democracies permitting churches to preach that any group of people are sinful. Seems to me, they are doing a better job of being a democracy, to make better assurances that church and state remain separate. Many violent and fascist groups hide under the cloak of church and religion. There is nothing sacred or honorable about them. It is only our corrupt, homophobic gov't and society that sanctions such brutality. The religious reich is but the tip of the iceberg. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:31:14 -0700 In article <35f3974b.12814385@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >>>This is *not at all the same as putting an end to any religion. I am >>>sorry you can only interpret my proposal on such an overly-broad and >>>misconstrued level. >> >>Shutting down a church for its teachings is not putting an end to a religion? > >Well, all this violent homophobia is not coming out of thin air! I do >not see any of the other western democracies permitting churches to >preach that any group of people are sinful. Then you are blind. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 21:27:49 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:31:14 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >Then you are blind. Like Justice. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:53:51 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:31:14 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle > Steiner) wrote: > > >Then you are blind. > > Like Justice. No, like a big pile of old, rubber tires. Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:52:57 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > Well, all this violent homophobia is not coming out of thin air! I do > not see any of the other western democracies permitting churches to > preach that any group of people are sinful. Seems to me, they are > doing a better job of being a democracy, to make better assurances > that church and state remain separate. Perhaps you don't see it because you don't live there. There are religious loonies operating in every country. > Many violent and fascist groups hide under the cloak of church and > religion. There is nothing sacred or honorable about them. It is only > our corrupt, homophobic gov't and society that sanctions such > brutality. The religious reich is but the tip of the iceberg. Not all people who preach against homosexuality are guilty of violent terrorism. Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:31:34 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:52:57 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >Perhaps you don't see it because you don't live there. There are religious >loonies operating in every country. No, I'm aware. In fact, much of this looniness comes from Amerika...as our fundamentilist churches send "missionaries" everywhere: Eastern Europe, Russia, and even brave little Holland. However, in the western democracies, there is careful government sanction to suppress violence-motivated cults. In our nation, we call it "free speech". It's more like "free hate speech". >Not all people who preach against homosexuality are guilty of violent terrorism. No, they let others commit the murders and bashings, so their hands remain clean. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: bdcpharm@prodigy.net (robbie_c) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 01:10:34 GMT On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:03:11 GMT, the gay community's answer to Fred Cherry, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel "Crawlin'" Krahlin) did thunder, and the earth did shake thusly: >On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:58:08 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle >Steiner) wrote: > >>For the government to put an end to any church or religion would spell the >>end of religious freedom in the United States. [---snipola---] > >If the gov't discovered a church illegally selling black market >videos, they would be stopped by order of the courts. If a whole >network of churches were involved, they would all be charged with >criminal fault. For these churches to continue as churches, they'd be >obligated to end their illegal activities. If they don't, they'd then >be shut down. The church would not be shut down. The INDIVIDUALS involved in illegal activities would be arrested and charged. The church, as an organization, could conceivably be fined, but not shut down. > >We should only apply the same rules when it comes to homosexual >citizens. First, we bring these churchs into court, and challenge them >to provide solid evidence that either of their two bibles promotes >villification of homosexuals, or even describes homosexuality as a >sin. They would quickly lose their case, for these two books alone, >are their only justification for promoting condemnation of >homosexuality. Then, any church that persists in preaching against >hommosexuality, would be given fair warning to cease and desist, or >else: or else, they'll be shut down. This is absolutely ludicrous. What are we bringing them into court for? What's the charge? Condemning homosexuality is not a crime, like it or not. We have a First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, and I, for one, do not want to see it repealed. If the government can silence the churches, they can silence me! No thanks, Zeke. > >This is *not at all the same as putting an end to any religion. I am >sorry you can only interpret my proposal on such an overly-broad and >misconstrued level. But it IS putting an end to religious groups whose views on homosexuality YOU do not like. Using the courts in this way extinguishes personal freedom, including the freedom of association. It can be just as easily used against you and your beliefs. Again, no thanks. I'll stay here in the USA, and work to change things in my mainstream, non-radical, white, middle-class, gay AMERICAN [with a "C"] male way. Take your police state ideas to Gaydonia, or Patagonia, or Freedonia, or wherever. >Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass >for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! As they have a perfect right to do, since you are offering a license to others and, in certain circumstances, requesting money in return. -- Robbie-------------(bruce_c) bdcpharm@epic.prodigy.net http://members.wbs.net/homepages/n/y/c/nycrobbie.html [Legitimate e-mailers: remove 'epic' from my address] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From childhood's hour I have not been As others were---I have not seen As others saw---I could not bring My passions from a common spring. ------Edgar Allan Poe "Alone" ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 08:33:20 GMT On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 01:10:34 GMT, bdcpharm@prodigy.net (robbie_c) wrote: >But it IS putting an end to religious groups whose views on >homosexuality YOU do not like. Using the courts in this way >extinguishes personal freedom, including the freedom of association. >It can be just as easily used against you and your beliefs. Oh, please. I am only suggesting we give to gays, the same demands we have made for other minorities, to include them as equals in our society. Integration was forced upon us by our legal system...and for damned good reasons. So there are some situations that call for drastic measures to oppose and defuse the tyranny of the majority. >>Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass >>for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! > >As they have a perfect right to do, since you are offering a license >to others and, in certain circumstances, requesting money in return. For my transformative work as parody, not derivative. Any parodied work is legally original in its own right, and not bound for licensed permission by the author who is being parodied. Why don't you check out my Pee Nuts web site, and read the material I provide, regarding court case of parody issues? They are all verifiable on the links I provide...so one can be assured I have not modified any documents I acquire. There are also provided, the legal counsel I have been getting daily...which I update for all interested visitors. You will find a number of lawyers in clear agreement that I am perfectly legal. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:11:33 GMT wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) writes: >On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 16:58:08 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle >Steiner) wrote: >>In article <35f1b8c3.5326659@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com >>wrote: >> >>>And this is why (as I have said already), it will be no difficult >>>thing for the government to challenge this issue in court...thus >>>putting an end to the right wing's churches. They would be outlawed! >> >>For the government to put an end to any church or religion would spell the >>end of religious freedom in the United States. >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>| Michelle Steiner >You just don't get it do you Michelle -- some religions are naughty >and some religions are nice and in Thrace, Zeke will decide who is >who, he's got a little list! >ward You homos have a not-so-little list of people you don't like and who you manage to get teminated with extreme prejidice by their ISPs. I am the only one on your not-so-little list that you homos have failed to remove from Usenet. john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:08:42 -0700 > You rarely make much sense, Wart...and this, your latest comment, is > no exception. My proposal to challenge all homophobic churches to > specifically cite the Bible for proof that homosexuality is a > sin...will lead to their demise, for lack of substantial evidence. And > why hasn't our legal system taken up this very easy task? Because it > has failed to truly separate church from state...and challenging > KKKrisitian bible thumpers in this way, would vastly weaken any reason > they perceive as God's will, to persecute gays. The Bible is literature. I don't give a rat's ass if someone can find arguments for or against homosexuality in it. I don't believe it's the word of god. > It would then lead to the outlawing and shutting down of anti-gay > churches. Say wha'? The court is gonna shut down churches because of what the Bible says? I certainly hope not... Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:31:35 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:08:42 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >The Bible is literature. I don't give a rat's ass if someone can find >arguments for or against homosexuality in it. I don't believe it's the >word of god. You don't. I don't. But approaching them on their own level is a powerful tact...because to corner them in court, demanding they give concrete evidence where in the bible, it says homosexuality is a sin...will settle this issue for once and for all. Churches should not be above the law, yet our country looks the other way. >> It would then lead to the outlawing and shutting down of anti-gay >> churches. > >Say wha'? The court is gonna shut down churches because of what the Bible >says? I certainly hope not... It would shut down those churches that continue to preach homophobia, once the court judgment against this has been passed. Churches that obey this law, will not be shut down. This is hardly a Christian church in western Europe that preaches against gays. That is because it is finally against their laws to practice gay hatred...and their churches, to remain open, must abide by these laws. > Jeff >jdcroft@nospam.best.com > > > > --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:15:45 GMT On Wed, 09 Sep 1998 03:36:37 GMT, sheroux@europa.nospam.com (RavensHeart) wrote: >On Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:31:35 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel >Krahlin) wrote: > >>On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:08:42 -0700, Jeffrey Croft >> wrote: >> >>>The Bible is literature. I don't give a rat's ass if someone can find >>>arguments for or against homosexuality in it. I don't believe it's the >>>word of god. >> >>You don't. I don't. But approaching them on their own level is a >>powerful tact...because to corner them in court, demanding they give >>concrete evidence where in the bible, it says homosexuality is a Such "evidence" would not be admissible in a court of law -- at least not in our secular republic. ward ____________________________________________________ ¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:12:11 GMT On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:15:45 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >>>You don't. I don't. But approaching them on their own level is a >>>powerful tact...because to corner them in court, demanding they give >>>concrete evidence where in the bible, it says homosexuality is a > >Such "evidence" would not be admissible in a court of law -- at least >not in our secular republic. We are not truly a secular republic, just as we are not truly a democracy. Many of our decisions of the law in this nation, are still decided on ignorant claims supposedly from the bible, or at least from fundamentalist KKKristian viewpoints. Hate crimes are illegal in the United States...unfortunately, *gay hate crimes are still tacitly encouraged and defended. We are the only western democracy that still permits any group, including churches, to preach hatred towards any group of people. Representatives of homophobic churches should be called before a jury, and challenged for their hate speeches...just like any other group espousing violence. Once we include churches under the umbrella of organized groups that are not above the law...then, and only then, can we begin to regard ourselves as a truly secular nation. Or for that matter, a democratic one. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:12:18 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > Representatives of homophobic churches should be called before a jury, > and challenged for their hate speeches...just like any other group > espousing violence. Once we include churches under the umbrella of > organized groups that are not above the law...then, and only then, can > we begin to regard ourselves as a truly secular nation. Or for that > matter, a democratic one. You can't do that until they have done something illegal and have been charged with that crime. Even though the attitudes of the jury and the court may be influenced by the Bible, you can't use the Bible as evidence in a court of law. Not officially. Have you ever tried arguing with a Bible-thumper about his interpretation of the Bible? It never works. You could go through the entire thing verse by verse and refute everything and still not change someone's mind. So, I don't think that bring the Bible into a courtroom will help. The thing that will help is to change the public's attitude toward gay people. Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 06:23:33 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:08:42 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >> You rarely make much sense, Wart...and this, your latest comment, is >> no exception. My proposal to challenge all homophobic churches to >> specifically cite the Bible for proof that homosexuality is a >> sin...will lead to their demise, for lack of substantial evidence. And >> why hasn't our legal system taken up this very easy task? Because it >> has failed to truly separate church from state...and challenging >> KKKrisitian bible thumpers in this way, would vastly weaken any reason >> they perceive as God's will, to persecute gays. > >The Bible is literature. I don't give a rat's ass if someone can find >arguments for or against homosexuality in it. I don't believe it's the >word of god. > >> It would then lead to the outlawing and shutting down of anti-gay >> churches. > >Say wha'? The court is gonna shut down churches because of what the Bible >says? I certainly hope not... > > Jeff Not to lose any sleep Jeff -- consider the source of this prophesy and calm yourself. ward >jdcroft@nospam.best.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "As National Socialists we are not afraid to fight against this plague within our own ranks. Just as we have readopted this ancient Germanic approach to the question of marriage between alien races, so, too, in our judgment of homosexuality -- symptom of racial degeneracy, destructive to our race --we have returned to the guiding Nordic principle that degenerates should be exterminated." Heinrich Himmler, speech, Oct. 10, 1934 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:28:20 GMT On Wed, 09 Sep 1998 06:23:33 GMT, wstewart@hi.net (Ward Stewart) wrote: >Not to lose any sleep Jeff -- consider the source of this prophesy and >calm yourself. Prophecy it is! Now, chew on this letter I e-mailed to an interested party from a gay legal list to which I'm subscribed: ---begin quote At 10:35 AM 9/8/98 -0700, you wrote: > I was really at a loss for a way to properly express your position and >politics. First, let me say, I am quite serious in my statement that any >equal rights movement needs the Ezekiels in order to be succcessful. I understand, no problem. Only I prefer to equate my own motives to Moses (instead of Farrakan)...who led his people to freedom. Moses established the Hebrews as a people with their own distinct identity...a community. I find that many gays still don't have than sensibility, and believe that being gay is only an issue of sex...rather than of the spirit, as well, and more importantly. >The words extremist, fundamentalist or Chauvinist all describe your position >but they have such a pejoritive sense in most people's minds. Yes, of course, in these days when "liberal" is a dirty word. Forget "radical"! >I get the feeling that you could properly be described as a gay supremicist. "Supremicist" might be one or two shades beyond what I am. I am an egalitarian who demands equality, not tolerance. And the idea of a separatist notion is, to me, more important than the idea of finally having our own nation. >There are a number of "credentuals" I could flash but the only reason for showing >them is to indicate that I know what I am talking about when I say that the gay >equality movement needs the Ezekiels as well as those suit and tie conservatives. I enjoyed reading some of your credentials, and am most grateful for your brave contributions. Yes, I know I am needed...that may even be an understatement. To be succinct: I have been honored to see my own destiny. And in my pride, I am humbled. Gay people will soon become mobilized the world over, with victory after victory sweeping the planet. A marvelous revolution, a peaceful revolution, a righteous revolution, a magnanimous revolution. A gay revolution. And this realization will dawn in the consciousness of gays this year, I should think (if my visions are accurate). Lucky shall be the person born gay! >You are going to often find people seperating themselves from you and "your >ilk". Tell me something I don't know! I have been villified and isolated by all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons, throughout my life! So this has toughened me to take my stand for gay rights on solid foundation. >This is a political necessity. It is a wise person that does not allow this >political seperation to create anger or dislike on the personal or private >level. No problem there. I believe I am channeling my rage in a highly creative and innovative form that will create major waves and ripples world wide. Pardon my dust! >Oh by the way, I recall someone commenting on a "Gay Manifesto". I seem to >recall the publication of a "Gay Manifesto" in the late 60s or early 70s. If you >need, I can look through my bookshelves and see if I have it. I'm aware of it, but I don't have it at the moment. If you care, you can send me a copy...but I'm sure it's probably accessible via Internet search. Yes, I don't see myself as completely original...but as picking up a thread that has been neglected. In a sense, the torch of gay liberation has been passed onto me. >Keep up your fight and keep poking a stick into the ribs of those who either >supress gay rights or who are ambivalent to gay equality. Make them think. My greatest pleasure, Douglas! I am an equal opportunity prodder. I already received an offer from one "Crusader" on the legal list, to help me find legal counsel. Thank you so much for your most intelligent and thoughtful comments. Do stay in touch! ---end quote --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:33:07 -0700 [[Interesting further that one who so passionately advocates (he thinks) for the bill of rights and the constitutional protections for ALL the citizens would so casually jettison the separation of church and state.>> No. Don't you see the light yet? Mr Krahlin is the Messiah. Therefore, church & state separation are irrelevant to him. ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:47:45 GMT On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:33:07 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >No. Don't you see the light yet? Mr Krahlin is the Messiah. Therefore, >church & state separation are irrelevant to him. I have what some might consider messianic energies. But what they really are, is a personal revelation of the greatness that is gay rights...so I push very aggressively for their progress. And I also know that many other gays feel the same way, and will speak out. So if I am to become any sort of messiah, it will only be through my words...and only with a lot of other lesbians and gays who would equally deserve recognition as messiahs. Separation of church and state are indeed a great concern to me...as is all too obvious in all my articles I have posted to Usenet, since I first logged on early last year! The fact that you claim I may not want church and state separated, is in direct opposition to anything I've said in my messages, on this matter. Why be so stupid in opposing a common issue we should all be in agreement with--separation of church and state--just to perpetrate your hatred towards me, to prove some sort of selfish and self-destruction viewpoint? You only prove youself a dolt and manipulator, for other than wholesome motives. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 12:03:34 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > I have what some might consider messianic energies. But what they > really are, is a personal revelation of the greatness that is gay > rights...so I push very aggressively for their progress. And I also > know that many other gays feel the same way, and will speak out. So if > I am to become any sort of messiah, it will only be through my > words...and only with a lot of other lesbians and gays who would > equally deserve recognition as messiahs. I seriously doubt that anyone could qualify as a messiah in your head but you. Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 02:31:37 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 12:03:34 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >I seriously doubt that anyone could qualify as a messiah in your head but >you. I never said I do. It is others who accuse me of trying to claim to be a messiah. Thus, I explained if I am a messiah at all, then many others are, too. Of course, you need to have everything explained two or three times, before you grasp the concept. But I have the patience of a saint; so no big deal. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:26:53 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > I never said I do. It is others who accuse me of trying to claim to be > a messiah. Thus, I explained if I am a messiah at all, then many > others are, too. Of course, you need to have everything explained two > or three times, before you grasp the concept. But I have the patience > of a saint; so no big deal. Praise be to Ezekiel the Lord who deigns to come down from On High to explain this to stupid, little, old me. Feh! Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:27:45 GMT On Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:26:53 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >Praise be to Ezekiel the Lord who deigns to come down from On High to explain >this to stupid, little, old me. Praise be to all gay and pro-gay women and men! For it is in their spirit for which I act. In a sense, the gay community is my creator, and I am the bodily culmination of all our finest dreams fulfilled. I am here to serve you, not control you. I am here to avenge you, *and extol you. My warrior symbol: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/ikons/1horus.htm You may also read about the coming NuPassover for gays at: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/write/horus.htm --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:22:39 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > On Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:26:53 -0700, Jeffrey Croft > wrote: > > >Praise be to Ezekiel the Lord who deigns to come down from On High to explain > >this to stupid, little, old me. > > Praise be to all gay and pro-gay women and men! For it is in their > spirit for which I act. In a sense, the gay community is my creator, > and I am the bodily culmination of all our finest dreams fulfilled. I > am here to serve you, not control you. I am here to avenge you, *and > extol you. Yeah, so you've said. You left out "and to ridicule you when you don't agree with me." Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:18:47 GMT On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:22:39 -0700, Jeffrey Croft wrote: >Yeah, so you've said. You left out "and to ridicule you when you don't agree with >me." Ridicule me all you want. Just because I defend myself against the particularly venomous ridicule, is not the same as trying to sabotage your Internet access, or coerce you in any other way. It is inevitable that anyone who becomes a public figure will be subjected to constant ridicule. Just goes with the territory. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jeffrey Croft Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:26:05 -0700 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:22:39 -0700, Jeffrey Croft > wrote: > > >Yeah, so you've said. You left out "and to ridicule you when you don't agree with > >me." > > Ridicule me all you want. Just because I defend myself against the > particularly venomous ridicule, is not the same as trying to sabotage > your Internet access, or coerce you in any other way. I wasn't ridiculing you. You were ridiculing me. Did you forget? Jeff jdcroft@nospam.best.com ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:34:26 +0000 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > Ridicule me all you want. Just because I defend myself against the > particularly venomous ridicule, is not the same as trying to sabotage > your Internet access, or coerce you in any other way. > > It is inevitable that anyone who becomes a public figure will be > subjected to constant ridicule. Just goes with the territory. Mother Theresa, for instance. Look at how everybody, liberal and conservative ridiculed her once she became a public figure. Sure. Yeah... -Bill ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 15:43:58 GMT On Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:34:26 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >Mother Theresa, for instance. Look at how everybody, liberal >and conservative ridiculed her once she became a public figure. >Sure. Yeah... Mad TV, for one, certainly parodied Mother Theresa...as have, I believe, several other shows. --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:29:16 GMT On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:06:30 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >No, the premium seance features Liberace on the Baby Grand. Now, that's worth seeing! Can I bring my whoopie cushion? --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass for my gay-rights parody of Peanuts! http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:11 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 06:06:06 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >In a pig's eye! Their book says, clearly and unambiguously, that >we are an abomination and should be killed. That's why I steer >clear of any part of their religion. Sorry, but I have studied every single passage in both testaments...and you have to stand corrected. There is not discussion of homosexualit as a viable relationship...it is only mentioned in terms of temple prostitution or in regarding the sins of promiscuity and sexual abuse...but it never condemns healthy homosexual relationships. An excellent resource which does cover every aspect of the two bibles, used against gays, can be found on one of my websites at: http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Stonewall/8944/ Just scroll down to, and select, link "DAVE (Liberated Christian)" Here's the spiel that goes with that link: Ever wish you had the perfect rebuttal to a Bible-thumping bigot who insists homosexuality is condemned by the Good Book? Dave's extensive and brilliant treatise provides the weapons you need to defend homosexuality a la The Bible. And (get this), Dave is heterosexual! (I discovered Dave in newsgroup alt.christnet, confronting the homophobes who thrive in that newsgroup.) --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:36:06 -0700 In article <35ee34fc.14264519@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > Jesus on the Okra Winfree Show > http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/write/okra.htm > >(No doubt brainless Michelle will now accuse me of racism, by >parodying Oprah Winfrey's name.) No. I never accused you of anything for what you did, but for what you didn't do--just as you accuse heterosexuals for what they don't do. All I've been doing is using your own arguments against you. I haven't taken any gratutious potshots at you, though, as you have at me. If you want to engage in a war of personal invective, though, be my guest; it will be one sided--my position is secure enough that I don't have to do it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 06:08:34 +0000 Michelle Steiner wrote: > If you want to engage in a war of personal invective, though, be my guest; > it will be one sided--my position is secure enough that I don't have to do > it. Michelle, You are conscienceless and unprincipled. I would never agree to participate in a battle of wits with an unarmed man :-) -Bill ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:17 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 06:08:34 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >You are conscienceless and unprincipled. I would never agree >to participate in a battle of wits with an unarmed man :-) You're nothing special. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:57:50 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:36:06 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >No. I never accused you of anything for what you did, but for what you >didn't do--just as you accuse heterosexuals for what they don't do. And I even had the proof on demand, against your slander. Something supposedly gay-friendly heteros never seem to have. >All I've been doing is using your own arguments against you. I haven't >taken any gratutious potshots at you, though, as you have at me. Hardly. Believe what you want, though. >If you want to engage in a war of personal invective, though, be my guest; I would never want to be your guest...you're a lousy host. Maybe you're a twinkie hostess. --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:34:07 -0700 In article <35efbe8b.25090453@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >>If you want to engage in a war of personal invective, though, be my guest; > >I would never want to be your guest...you're a lousy host. Maybe >you're a twinkie hostess. Hey, now that's hitting below the belt! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Jim Drew Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 23:43:43 +0100 Bill Lindemann wrote: > > If you want to hack a cartoonist, at least pick one with a demonstrated > history of either active or passive homophobia. My suggestions are "B.C." > and "Family Circus". Hmm... If you still want to be in-your-face, how > about penning a takeoff called "Family Jerkoff"? It's been done. There were a half-dozen "Dysfunctional Family Circus" mini-comics done several years ago. Hilarious stuff, better than South Park, which they came before. They were stopped because the parodist eventually met Keane and decided that the guy was too nice. (I don't know of any homophobia claims against Keane. Send info, please.) Jim ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 02:23:17 +0000 Jim Drew wrote: > (I don't know of any homophobia claims against Keane. Send info, please.) > > Jim "Family Circus" relentlessly broadcasts the message that everyone is hetero, whitebread (but not white), squeaky clean, mostly sexless, suburban, church-going, cutesy, prayerful, traditional, and did I forget to mention hetero? This doesn't prove he's homophobic, of course, but unlike Peanuts this strip is aggressively normative in its portrayal of American life. It's not that Keane says anything specfiically anti-gay, it's just that, after reading the strip enough, you can't imagine there being space for a gay person anywhere in Circus' world. -Bill ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 10:30:14 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 02:23:17 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >"Family Circus" relentlessly broadcasts the message that everyone is >hetero, whitebread (but not white), squeaky clean, mostly sexless, >suburban, church-going, cutesy, prayerful, traditional, and did I forget >to mention hetero? Sounds a lot like Peanuts. >It's not that Keane says anything specfiically anti-gay, it's just that, >after reading the strip enough, you can't imagine there being space for >a gay person anywhere in Circus' world. Oh...and can you imagine a space for a gay kid in Peanuts? Seems that most of our gay particpants think the idea is inappropriate, outrageous, and even offensive. Good grief! --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: "James Doemer" Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:45:56 -0400 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote in message <35ee67f8.27318362@nntp.sj.bigger.net>... :On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 02:23:17 +0000, Bill Lindemann :wrote: : :>"Family Circus" relentlessly broadcasts the message that everyone is :>hetero, whitebread (but not white), squeaky clean, mostly sexless, :>suburban, church-going, cutesy, prayerful, traditional, and did I forget :>to mention hetero? : :Sounds a lot like Peanuts. : :>It's not that Keane says anything specfiically anti-gay, it's just that, :>after reading the strip enough, you can't imagine there being space for :>a gay person anywhere in Circus' world. : :Oh...and can you imagine a space for a gay kid in Peanuts? Seems that :most of our gay particpants think the idea is inappropriate, :outrageous, and even offensive. : :Good grief! : How do you know that one or two of them aren't gay?? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:54:18 GMT On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:45:56 -0400, "James Doemer" wrote: >How do you know that one or two of them aren't gay?? If they are, they're still in the closet, and should be outed! --- "Some Thracian now enjoys my blameless shield, which I unwillingly left beside a bush. But I was saved; what do I care about that shield? Let it go, I'll get another no worse." - Archilocus, 7th Century BC --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with the "Peenuts" copyright issue: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 3 Sep 1998 21:10:03 -0500 In article <35ef1a4c.13087052@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:45:56 -0400, "James Doemer" > wrote: > > >How do you know that one or two of them aren't gay?? > > If they are, they're still in the closet, and should be outed! Hey, I heard Ethan Greene was gay. Is this true? (it's just a joke, sheesh!) -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:57:55 GMT On 3 Sep 1998 21:10:03 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >Hey, I heard Ethan Greene was gay. Is this true? Judging by the color of his name, I don't think so. --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 4 Sep 1998 09:26:05 -0500 In article <35efbf2e.25253112@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > On 3 Sep 1998 21:10:03 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) > wrote: > > >Hey, I heard Ethan Greene was gay. Is this true? > > Judging by the color of his name, I don't think so. You do know who Ethan Greene is, right? -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:38 GMT On 4 Sep 1998 09:26:05 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: >You do know who Ethan Greene is, right? Not really. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 5 Sep 1998 14:47:07 -0500 In article <35f0af3b.33616201@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > On 4 Sep 1998 09:26:05 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) > wrote: > > >You do know who Ethan Greene is, right? > > Not really. He is exactly what you want. A nationally syndicated cominc strip about gay life, starring Ethan Greene. The series is syndicated to over 50 gay papers nationwide. I'm not sure who carries it in the Bay Area. They have the cartoon book collections at A Different Light, and online you can view the 'toons at http://www.stonewallinn.com/Ethan/ They are not "serious" and are usually very trivial, but they are funny as hell -- and the cartoon does deal with serious issues every now and then. There are several other gay cartoons out there. Visit the Washington Blade (http://www.washblade.com) and click on the cartoons link. -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:47:53 GMT On 5 Sep 1998 14:47:07 -0500, cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) wrote: A nationally syndicated cominc strip about >gay life, starring Ethan Greene. The series is syndicated to over 50 gay >papers nationwide. I'm not sure who carries it in the Bay Area. They have >the cartoon book collections at A Different Light, and online you can view >the 'toons at >http://www.stonewallinn.com/Ethan/ Oh, yes...I read him every chance I get..."The Mostly Unfabulous Social Life of Ethan Greene". I just never registered the name in my memory banks. >He is exactly what you want. Well, it's not what *I want, it's what our mainstream newspapers should want. And I am just one person...and cannot do everything. But I am trying my damnedest to create a big stink...by attempting to draw media attention upon the issue of my Pee Nut parody. However, this is not to stop you, or excuse you, from sending your own letter to the editor on this matter...to many newspapers in your region and elsewhere. I have already suggested that everyone in this thread do so. But has anyone commented on this? Of course not! Why on earth should any of us take an idea--no matter how excellent--from someone we have all (in our queer newsgroup clique) agreed to hate and denigrate? Perish the notion! Far be it from me to point out someone may *likely take my ideas, and claim them for his or her own...and leave me behind in the dust. (Except, perhaps, for milking further good suggestions from me.) So...did you write your letter to the editor yet, Mike? And John Leopard, our "gay-supportive" hetero...have you? Anyone else? Hell-ooo-ooo! --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 23:23:07 GMT On Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:47:53 GMT, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote: The following statement needs a correction: >So...did you write your letter to the editor yet, Mike? And John >Leopard, our "gay-supportive" hetero...have you? Anyone else? I meant "James Doemer" instead of John Leopard. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:07:28 -0700 In article <35ee67f8.27318362@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >Oh...and can you imagine a space for a gay kid in Peanuts? Seems that >most of our gay particpants think the idea is inappropriate, >outrageous, and even offensive. Keep in mind that none of the characters in Peanuts show any sign of sexuality at all. Maybe that's a bigger problem than there being no gay characters. So, when are you doing to do a parody of "Dilbert"? I would think that that would make a much better target than "Peanuts." There is more likelyhood of a gay being in that office than with seven-year old kids. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Frank Martinez Lester Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:24:44 -0700 A gay parody of "Dilbert" would be great, especially if it turned out that Alice or that intern boy or Dogbert were gay. Nah, Scott Adams would never go for it. He's homophobic, right? ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:58:04 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:24:44 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester wrote: >A gay parody of "Dilbert" would be great, especially if it turned out that >Alice or that intern boy or Dogbert were gay. > >Nah, Scott Adams would never go for it. He's homophobic, right? Just what does the pointy-haired boss do, during his off-time hours, with those little points? --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: Bill Lindemann Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 06:11:09 +0000 Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > Just what does the pointy-haired boss do, during his off-time hours, > with those little points? Skewers heterophobes. -Bill ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 03:27:18 GMT On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 06:11:09 +0000, Bill Lindemann wrote: >Ezekiel Krahlin wrote: > >> Just what does the pointy-haired boss do, during his off-time hours, >> with those little points? > >Skewers heterophobes. But there are no such animules. --- Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says: "Throw the hetero over the fence some hay." --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Charles Schulz's lawyers are after my ass! To find out why, choose either URL below: http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/extra/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: cubsfan@cjnetworks.com (Mike Silverman) Date: 4 Sep 1998 09:25:12 -0500 In article <35efbfd6.25421114@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: > On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:24:44 -0700, Frank Martinez Lester > wrote: > > >A gay parody of "Dilbert" would be great, especially if it turned out that > >Alice or that intern boy or Dogbert were gay. > > > >Nah, Scott Adams would never go for it. He's homophobic, right? > > Just what does the pointy-haired boss do, during his off-time hours, > with those little points? There was a grossly obscene parody of Dilbert on the web a few years back called "The Dilbert Hole" It had no political or social motive --- other than to offend as many people as possible. It was virulently homophobic, racist, sexist, and anti-semetic. And funny in a hideously sick kind of way. This parody was pulled after a cease-and-desist letter issued from United Media. -- Mike Silverman -- cubsfan at turnleft.com -- Lawrence, KS http://www.turnleft.com/personal ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com (Ezekiel Krahlin) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:57:56 GMT On Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:07:28 -0700, michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) wrote: >So, when are you doing to do a parody of "Dilbert"? I would think that >that would make a much better target than "Peanuts." There is more >likelyhood of a gay being in that office than with seven-year old kids. I would really prefer that other gays with a little talent, contribute to the Lesbian/Thracian Sunday Comics. I will give each contributor full credit and copyright respect. I'd really like the gay community at large, to create a full-blown parody of the Sunday Comics. It would be the hottest web site in the entire world (wide web). --- Right-wing queers are all it takes To fill gay rights with rattlesnakes. --- My website kicks (but never licks) butt! http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/ GodHatesBreeders@HetBeGone.com --- Either URL below, will keep you updated with my "Pee Nuts" copyright issue: http://members.xoom.com/ezekielk/copyrite.htm http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm ======== Subject: Re: My gay-rights cartoon is charged with copyright infringement! From: michelle@michelle.org (Michelle Steiner) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:36:50 -0700 In article <35efbf5d.25300246@nntp.sj.bigger.net>, ezekieljk@my-dejanews.com wrote: >>So, when are you doing to do a parody of "Dilbert"? I would think that >>that would make a much better target than "Peanuts." There is more >>likelyhood of a gay being in that office than with seven-year old kids. > >I would really prefer that other gays with a little talent, contribute >to the Lesbian/Thracian Sunday Comics. I will give each contributor >full credit and copyright respect. I'd really like the gay community >at large, to create a full-blown parody of the Sunday Comics. It would >be the hottest web site in the entire world (wide web). If I had the talent, I'd do it. BTW, speaking of gay-friendly comics, have you ever read the _Doom Patrol_ series by DC comics? It was never a very popular series, but had a small cult following in both of its incarnations. At one point, one of the super heroes in the team was a post-op transsexual lesbian. Can't get more gay-positive than that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Michelle Steiner | "An it harm none, do as thou will. | | michelle@michelle.org | That is the whole of the law." | ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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MY GAY-RIGHTS CARTOON IS CHARGED WITH COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT! (newsgroup: alt.politics.homosexuality) -- PART 2 OF 4

MY GAY-RIGHTS CARTOON IS CHARGED WITH COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!
(newsgroup: alt.politics.homosexuality) -- PART 2 OF 4