-------------------------------------------------------------- Permission granted by author for anyone to distribute this writing free of charge (including translation into any language)...under condition that no profit is made therefrom, and that it remain intact and complete, including title and credit to the original author. Ezekiel J. Krahlin http://www.gay-bible.org --------------------------------------------------------------
RRONEOUS HETERO
© 2007 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin
(Jehovah's Queer Witness)
From the same Alternet thread as my previous blog entry ("Society Creates Its Own Monsters"), this dialogue with one particular person, "Turiye," deserves a post all to herself:
RE: rroneous Hetero
You are contributing to this hate by your Islamophobic comment. I have been married for 23 years to a Turkish Muslim, my 17 year old daughter is Muslim. I spend 5 months a year in Turkey. I am in Istanbul, Izmir, Bodrum, Kusadasi, all over and not once did I witness anti-gay sentiment. So many gay people in , the European side of Istanbul and other cities are openly gay and I've yet to see an incident the likes of this article's. If you truly consider yourself an activist, I would appreciate it, as an activist myself, since Viet Nam, to attempt to not make a blanket statement regarding an entire religion with the touch of a letter on a keyboard. Reacting without proper knowledge, at times, backfires and then it is ourselves whom appear to be the racists.
Peace
Posted by: Turiye on Oct 6, 2007 5:08 PM
To which I responded:
{{ You are contributing to this hate by your Islamophobic comment. }}
Oooo, did I touch a sore nerve? Islam is VERY homophobic, even MORE so than Catholic nations...and that's pretty bad! If this were not true, then I could be labeled "Islamophobic"...but since the evidence is stacked in my favor, IMMENSELY, your condemnation of my voice can only mean one thing:
YOU are homophobic.
{{ I have been married for 23 years to a Turkish Muslim, my 17 year old daughter is Muslim. I spend 5 months a year in Turkey. I am in Istanbul, Izmir, Bodrum, Kusadasi, all over and not once did I witness anti-gay sentiment. }}
Because you, in your small circle of friends, do not witness homophobia, does not mean it does not exist. Indeed, it is rampant in all Muslim nations, even the more "liberal" ones such as Turkey and Egypt:
Gay-Bashing Muslims Are 'Innocent,' Of Course
Quote: "About a million people living in Holland identify as Muslims, most of them immigrants from Morocco and Turkey. Many of them view homosexuality with disdain...Gays often become the victims."
Gay group cautions EU in Turkey talks
Quote: "One of Europe's largest lesbian and gay rights organizations is calling for the European Union to recognize the importance of LGBT equality when negotiating with Turkey later this year....Currently, Turkish legislation does not provide protection again discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation and gender identity...it is the only European NATO state that still bans LGBT people from joining the army, claiming that same-sex attraction is a psychological disorder."
Challenging Fundamentalisms - Attacks on the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual People
Quote: "In some countries for example, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan and Saudi-Arabia, homosexual relations are officially punishable by execution or by flogging, depending on the circumstances of the case. In others, such as several States in the USA, Morocco, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Turkey, Jamaica, homosexuality or same-sex sexual relations are punishable by prison sentences, fines and/or hard labour (see www.ilga.org). Countries that do not have explicit laws prohibiting homosexuality may still prosecute LGB people under laws prohibiting activities such as ‘hooliganism’ or behaviour ‘against public morality’, for example in Egypt and China."
Quote: "...my idea is to create a transatlantic roundtable discussion: after doing a presentation on queer-bashing in Canada, I will invite Turkish police, activists and victims to discuss violence that’s happening right here....Lambda volunteers have gathered evidence of 30 murders involving queer victims in Turkey over the past three years. In 2002, for example, an Istanbul professor was stabbed to death by two men, one of whom claimed that the victim tried to rape him....Lambda volunteers are shocked by the intensity of the violence; a gay man was recently stabbed 62 times in Sirt, in southeastern Turkey....Two weeks ago, we heard about a man who was tied up and raped for two days," says Cihan. "
Quote: "Sadly, mainstream Muslim teaching accepts and promotes violence....But indeed, there is much that is clearly wrong with the Islamic world. Women are stoned to death and undergo clitorectomies. Gays hang from the gallows under the approving eyes of the proponents of Shariah, the legal code of Islam. Sunni and Shia massacre each other daily in Iraq. Palestinian mothers teach 3-year-old boys and girls the ideal of martyrdom."
I know people who live in very homophobic areas of the US...but they never witness, personally, any anti-gay attacks. They rely on the news to find this out. But if they don't pick up any gay newspapers, or read any gay news online...they remain ignorant of most homophobic attacks. And these dimwits confuse their ignorance with actual proof that gay bashing does not happen. Or they believe that homophobia requires actual physical violence to be labeled such. A preacher (or Imam) who vociferates anti-gay sentiment would not in their eyes be considered homophobic...in fact, they see it as God's (or Allah's) truth, and therefore nothing phobic about it. They deny that such vicious hate speech actually fosters physical violence against homosexuals. You seem to fit in that category quite nicely.
Essentially, you accuse me of being Islamophobic, simply because I do not cover up the TRUTH that Turkey is indeed a homophobic culture, in spite of homosexuality being legal. It is dangerous for sexual minorities in Turkey, to be out of the closet.
{{ So many gay people in , the European side of Istanbul and other cities are openly gay }}
You've got to be kidding! The European side? Well, that's really rolling up your sleeves and experiencing authentic Turkey, now isn't it? That's like visiting West Berlin (or West Germany) pre-Glasnost, and claiming: "I see no signs of communist conspiracy here."
The only reason you haven't witnessed homophobia in the European side of Istanbul, is because it is the nature of Western Europeans (which is really what is meant by European side), is to be a lot less homophobic than Muslim nations and even Eastern Europe.
Thanks for coming off like the braindead, illiterate Islamic homophobe you are...you've made my work so easy...and make me shine like the brightest star in Allah's Gay Heaven by contrast.
At best, you are shamefully ignorant of the gay issue in Muslim cultures...at worst, a collaborator with the enemy. You couldn't even come up with one good example of Muslim gay-friendliness. Jeez, I can cite you several references in this regards...albeit they are a teensy-tiny minority within Islam, as this is a spanking new ('scuse pun) social revolution. Thanks to our own sexual minorities; no thanks to mainstream Muslims or Arabs.
{{ I've yet to see an incident the likes of this article's. }}
Well, so you think all these news reporters are lying? Tell you what: travel around Turkey wearing a blatantly gay button or decal, and never remove it, no matter where you are. Pretend you are homosexual to everyone you meet, by telling them you are a gay activist. Let's just see how long you survive unscathed.
{{ Reacting without proper knowledge, at times, backfires and then it is ourselves whom appear to be the racists. }}
You are saying my knowledge is not proper? I provided tons of reliable sources to back me up. You need to contact these reporters, since you essentially accuse them of falsifying reality. Your problem is with them, not me. If Turkey were so gay friendly as you claim, it would have long ago become the gay mecca of the world. But it isn't, and for a good reason: Ho-ho-ho-homophobia.
In sum: Islam is VERY homophobic, including Turkey...including even the more moderate and liberal branches of the Muslim faith. Yet in speaking out against such hateful prejudice, you accuse me for spreading hate against Muslims. Sorry, bigot, but any hatred returned towards Muslims is mostly well deserved. And I will not shut up, even if a fatwah is declared against me. Here, let me help this along:
"Allah is good, Allah is gay, but don't let that spoil your day." -Ezekiel J. Krahlin
{{ Peace }}
Hypocrite. Homophobe.
--
"Many are called but few are chosen;
So step right up for your lederhosen."
- Big Gay Brother [ gay-bible.org ]
Turiye rebuts:
To have such exceptional tunnelvision, that you aren't even aware of what a caricature you are becoming. One thing concerns you, only. You have demeaned and acted with racist attitudes due to fear, articles gleaned from sites, anyone can find anything anyway on the internet, you do not attempt to presume, you assume, ethnically ignorant, incapable of forethought, thought, at all actually and try to sell yourself as the only person that has ever been wronged, friggin' look around, you half-wit!
As an anti-war activist since the 70's, feminist before it was flavour of the week, I wouldn't attempt to say I have so many gay and lesbian friends to you, according to an obtuse vicious cretin such as yourself it would mean I'm anti-gay something. You would make up a word if your limited verbiage failed.
You are a waste of air, 653,000 murdered Iraqi civilians, Bush/Cheney green-lighting torture, Mynmar, Possibility of this idiot Bush causing a war with Iran and you whine like a child because only what YOU choose to declare the worst atrocity exists only in that very small mind of yours. Try to gain a bit of ethical and tolerant communication capability.
Peace
My retort to her dimbulb rebutall:
{{ One thing concerns you, only. }}
Well, duh, I wonder what that is? Oh,yeah: "gay rights". After all I am a gay activist. No doubt you'd also accuse Martin Luther King (were he still alive) of being concerned with only one thing (black rights). Or Mother Teresa (poverty). Or Habitat for Humanity (housing for the poor).
{{ You have demeaned and acted with racist attitudes due to fear }}
What fear? I have no fear. Nor have I "demeaned" any Arab or Muslim, by speaking the truth of their anti-gay persecution, including torture and murder:
Iran: Two More Executions for Homosexual Conduct
Iran bans paper for interviewing homosexual
Killing gay men is OK, says British imam
Mahmoud says: No Homosexuals in Iran
UK Muslim Culture Festival Bans Gay Muslims
Muslim Council Rejects Gay Dialogue
Gay police officers face homophobia from Christians and Muslims
{{ articles gleaned from sites }}
Oh, I didn't know: is "gleaning" an abomination in Allah's eye?
{{ anyone can find anything anyway on the internet }}
Is that so? Well, I just googled "gay friendly mosque" and came up with...zilch. Now how about that! FYI: All the evidence I've presented via Internet searches, can also be found on respected paper publications. However, it's much quicker to "glean" such info in cyberspace. These are all trustworthy sites, due to their long-standing reputation of honest reporting. You seem to think that just because they are speaking favorably for homosexuals, they are liars. Typical Muslim bigot!
So if "anyone can find anything" on the web...how come you've not come up with even one example of gay-friendliness by a Muslim organization? Hmmm?
{{ sell yourself as the only person that has ever been wronged }}
Wow! Just for speaking out against Islam's homophobia, I am trivialized and demonized. By a Muslim I presume...or at leat by a pro-Muslim. What a surprise. No doubt you'd accuse same to a black activist, or Native Amerikan activist, or child's right activist, or women's activist...yes: each and every one of them feel they're the only one that's been wronged. Your clear-headed reasoning leaves no room for debate. Didn't realize who I'm up against.
You've done a better job of affirming my points, than I could ever do on my own. Thanks for coming out of the woodwork, as a living, breathing example of Muslim dogma and manipulation against innocent people who happen to be homosexual. A gold star for you today! (I'd offer you a pink triangle pin instead, but I'm afraid you'd refuse to be seen in public wearing it.)
{{ You are a waste of air, 653,000 murdered Iraqi }}
Really! I am anti-war myself, including what's going on in the Middle East. But that does not negate the FACT that the vast majority of Muslims is anti-gay in a BIG, big way. War or no war. You accuse me of "Islamophobia"...but I see the only ones like that, are those afraid to speak out against Islamic dogma...including those who don't fear confronting Christian and Catholic prejudice. That is due to the extreme violence preached by many coming out of Islam.
Let me put it this way:
Please cite me even ONE mosque in Turkey, whose leaders promote friendliness, acceptance, and respect towards gay people. I'm not even asking for support of gay marriage, here.
You've been to Turkey, so you (being so gay friendly), should know. It's an easy challenge, what?
I'm waiting!
One more article "gleaned":
Holy hatred: Homosexuality in Muslim countries
Quote: "The majority of Muslim countries outlaw same-sex relationships. The seven countries in the world that carry the death penalty for persons presumed guilty of homosexual acts, justify this punishment with the Shari'a."
Read it and scream! It's gonna be an early Halloween.
---finis